Introduction
Good afternoon, Dina. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you here on the podcast.
[Dina Tochluk]
Hi, how are you, Richard? Thank you for the invite.
[Richard Bexon]
Not at all. Not at all. It’s not, as I said, a pleasure.
And I mean, I don’t even think the listeners know, but my first real estate deal ever in Costa Rica or sale helping an investor here was actually with you.
[Dina Tochluk]
I remember that well, and I actually have followed that client’s, you know, history through Costa Rica and watch her grown and her, her family grow. And it’s really exciting. And that was an exciting sale because for me opening that market, it was my first sale in that market.
So it made it special too. So we were kind of first timers.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, the interesting thing that Sharon’s daughter, Jessica actually just had a baby on Sunday. So Sharon just became a grandmother.
[Dina Tochluk]
Wow. Well, I knew she was expecting, but that’s amazing. That’s amazing.
Well, that’s great to hear. Like I say, the family’s growing.
[Richard Bexon]
That’s it. Exactly. Well, Dina, I mean, based on your kind of perspective of what you’re seeing here in Costa Rica, I mean, how would you describe kind of the investment in real estate market at the moment?
Costa Rica Real Estate Market Overview
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, I think it’s an interesting time because after the, of course the COVID boom and the flattening out. And I think that this past year has proven a little bit of global stress and unknown, which has brought both things this way. One has brought the interest back into Costa Rica.
And I feel that maybe we haven’t got the traction yet, but I feel that there is definitely always interest in not only bringing a family, but retiring you know, people wanting to being a nomad and being able to discover this market and work as well. It’s very important. So I think that in that aspect that that trend has continued.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah.
[Dina Tochluk]
You know, interest is there.
[Richard Bexon]
Do you think it’s a buyer’s market or seller’s market generally in Costa Rica?
Santa Teresa: Buyer’s vs Seller’s Market Dynamics
[Dina Tochluk]
You know, generally I want to say that it’s you know, it’s been a seller’s market. I feel that, you know, recently there has been some dips in certain areas where it has actually become, you know, a buyer’s market. And I think that, that, you know, depending on who you talk to, they can, it can be, you know, controversial.
I think that like in our area specifically, there are opportunities, you know, to be had, which is, I feel really much in the Airbnb market, you know, like there is definitely an over production if you want to call it that. But I think people really focused on Airbnbs when that was hot and there’s a big shortage of single family homes. And so in that aspect, if you’re looking for an Airbnb or to redo something there or remarket or even turn an Airbnb into a home, you have an opportunity in this market.
And, and really it is a seller’s market if you have a really nice single family home, because that’s what people are coming here with now families. And there’s the bilingual schools. And I think that the infrastructure has very much caught up to the demand.
Like, I think that was a big problem in this area at the time of COVID that the building was outracing the infrastructure that the city could provide. And that has all evened out. So, you know, I think that, you know, the building continues, and a lot of it is people themselves building.
So it’s not really developers that are coming in and doing developments. But there are areas in Costa Rica where that’s happening. And, you know, so it’s really, you know, depending where you are and what you’re looking for, it’s the opportunities are there.
[Richard Bexon]
So I mean, in Santa Teresa, which is where you are, you’d say, I mean, I’m sure that there’s some products that’s a seller’s market and some products, it’s a buyer’s market, probably, right? Correct.
[Dina Tochluk]
Yes.
[Richard Bexon]
So it sounds like single family homes are more of a seller’s market. Is that correct?
[Dina Tochluk]
Yes, that’s correct. I think that there, that there, there’s kind of two layers here in Santa Teresa. There’s the first layer, which are the first people that came here 20 years ago that are still here.
But they kind of were the pioneers of the city or town and, you know, and made all their their homes and businesses and restaurants and stuff at almost like beach level. And when COVID, you know, kind of did the big worldwide, you know, people buying everywhere, this was a very desired place. I think it was probably like the number one area of real estate in Costa Rica.
And with that boom, all those first pioneers kind of sold all their land and moved up to the hills per se, you know, which is Santiago and the surrounding areas. And they all are have families, they’re young families. And with that, they decided to all make single family homes.
So you kind of have tiered areas as closer to the beach you are, you have the luxury homes that are on the oceanfront, then you have Airbnbs and single family homes that they’re all kind of original type buildings. And as you go higher in the hills, you’ll get the newer homes, more what people are looking for now, because I think that really the market in Costa Rica in general, in the buyers heads, if they’re buying something for a million dollars or more, they really don’t want a project, like they want something that they can move into that their family can come and, and so lower you get into town, I feel like with the older constructions, you’ll get possibly a lower price, but then you have to be willing to well, okay, well, let’s take this on and do with a project.
[Richard Bexon]
So what products do you have that you would say is in the buyers market? Is that just more like one bedroom places? I mean, what’s it where you get a client be like, okay, the client is going to have some negotiation, you know, power.
Airbnb Market Challenges and ROI Reality
[Dina Tochluk]
I think that I think the one bedrooms, the studios, there’s quite a quite a few, let’s say smaller boutique style hotels that are, you know, 10 rooms, five, seven rooms that they aren’t quite big enough to be like a hotel where you’re getting enough ROI. And I think that also to, to be realistic, there has been this past year, quite a few changes in the rules and regulations of running Airbnbs. And so I think that when people were buying Airbnbs, when it was a little bit more relaxed, or the infant stage here, you could make an 10% ROI.
And it was a very viable business and robust. And there it wasn’t quite as intense as it is now of availability, for example. So now having, you know, new rules and regulations, paying tax, you know, the ups and downs having more competition, I think that those ROIs have now dropped to about 5%.
And in some cases, three, and in some cases, it’s just paying for the property. So if you’re an investor that you don’t mind, and you’re investing in the land and you’re investing in the land style, lifestyle, but not depending on that 10%, well, it’s a great long term investment. Or if you decide to turn that into your home and take it off the market as an Airbnb, I think that you have really good chances to negotiate and still take advantage of great locations.
Luxury Villa Development in Hermosa Hills
[Richard Bexon]
You know, the one interesting thing with these boutique hotels is, you know, and I speak to hoteliers all the time is, you need to think beyond running a hotel that’s kind of a beach club for villas up in the hills, if that makes sense. Or if you are, buy the hotel as the beach club and still have the rooms there, but be developing up in the hills, villas and things where they have access to a beach club, because I mean, that adds so much value. Because again, as you sit there with like 10 rooms, you can’t really make money unless you’re running it yourself, just because the numbers just don’t work.
Or you’re charging 1500 bucks a night and you’re at 65% occupancy, you know, but you have all that infrastructure. So use that for villas, you know, and whether that’s external villas, where you have like, you know, day passes, where they pay 150 200 bucks per person, and it’s consumable, or that you build your own villas, you know, and then you now are servicing them from the hotel. And now your 10 room hotel can become 30 rooms pretty quickly.
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, it’s very interesting you say that because there are a few groups of people that are that are doing exactly that doing very luxury villas up in like the Hermosa Hills above Hermosa, so that you’re really at the beach and in three minutes, like I mean, it’s not like you’re really far away and you have cooler temperatures because you have the breeze of the ocean, nicer views, and then you just drop down and you have your club, you know, club, beach club.
And you can rent your surfboards, you can leave your stuff, you can go horseback riding, go do your ATV, like go have fun and then just kind of go retire back at the house whenever you want. So it is interesting because there are two two groups that have been doing that like scoping, you know, and one has purchased purchased it to do the beach club and the other one’s still looking but there’s stuff definitely things that that can be done and and not lose the permits or infrastructure that’s already existent in these properties but see how it works for you.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, where do you think the opportunity lies, I mean, either in Santa Rosa or in Costa Rica for investment at the moment?
Investment Opportunities in Nicoya Peninsula
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, I think that there’s quite a few opportunities, you know, and depending depending exactly where you’re looking like, you know, we were talking that there’s certain areas in Costa Rica, especially where the ISETE, which is the National Institute for Tourism, has always given this type of publicity, for example, how we were speaking of the Manuel Antonio Monteverde Arenal original triangle from the 1970s, you know, then recently with the Danilo Red or the Iberia Airport, you know, they’ve pushed the polo very much, you know, and getting all of the the luxury real estate and hotels up in that area. So I think that those type of trends are important to know because those are the trends that the country is projecting, it’s making it easier to get to, it has more services, it has more, you know, just in general everything and it holds its value, you know, like Manuel Antonio and San Marino continue to be very booming towns, even though they were pushed back in the 70s, they still hold their value today. So I think it’s important to one, love where you’re buying, even if it is for an investment and two, I think that, you know, people sometimes concentrate on the beach areas here, which of course are beautiful and you have an array from dry to complete rainforest to the Caribbean side, but you know, all the mountains in between are incredible as well and, you know, a lot of people do buy the beach and then end up selling and moving to the mountains because they feel that it’s cooler and you still have, you know, so much undiscovered places but also places that are discovered. So even, again, carefully, but knowing where there’s good destinations and then seeing where you can buy maybe outside of those popular areas, but very important that those areas have an anchor, something that’s going to attract someone that wants to come back or that’s luring them there, whether it’s a river, a certain view, a mountain, you know, in the beach, it could be the marina, surf, great scuba diving, you know, so that there’s places where people are driven to want to be there.
[Richard Bexon]
What investments would you avoid in Costa Rica at the moment, Dina?
Alternative Investments Beyond Beach Properties
[Dina Tochluk]
Boy, that’s a tough one. That’s a tough one, but I could say let’s bring it even tighter here, you know, to Santa Teresa, for example, which I do advise my clients coming in right now to stay away from Airbnbs, you know, like, or if they are going to do an Airbnb, again, make sure even it’s an anchoring town, like don’t buy the cheapest Airbnb because you think you’re going to make a 10% and it looks good, you know, make sure that, okay, that it does have maybe a view, or it is right at the entrance to the best surf spot, you know, so something that makes someone want to book where you’re going, but I think that right now, there’s better opportunities in this town than coming in with that focus, but really, I think that it’s hard, it’s really hard, because even people have asked me about farming, and, you know, like right now, I think that people are doing very good that are investing in cacao farms, you know, like chocolate in the general world is just skyrocketing because of the weather patterns, Africa’s not producing as much cacao now.
And so, you know, like, there’s really, I think that Costa Rica is blessed with tourism, with the ability to grow, with, you know, the ability from even doing all sorts of like experimentation with the wind and the water of hydroelectronics and or electric, I’m sorry. And so there is a lot that you can do and invest in Costa Rica. And I think that because Costa Rica is always in the headlines for many reasons, for the Nobel Peace Prize, for ecology, for the green, you know, flag that we carry and the protection that we have, having no military or army, all these things are attractive to people globally.
So it’s not really just one place or one type of buyer, we really do get an international interest. And with loads of people with different ideas that I think adds so much to the country as as a whole, you know, and I think that when people come here, they’re all coming for a better life, more peace, more happiness, more time out more time with the family. So you never really hear people coming here, you know, like with a chip on your shoulder or anything like that, it’s like really to better themselves.
And that energy is brought, I think, globally here. And, and so I think that really, number one, and I always tell this to people is invest in your lifestyle. And the rest will come, you know, because if you love what you do, you’re going to find something here that will attract you to, to, you know, do something that you’re going to be able to love, enjoy doing and, and grow.
I do say, you know, to people, and it’s probably not a good thing, but it is true. Like, I don’t think if you’re coming here to become a millionaire overnight, it’s not going to happen.
[Richard Bexon]
There are easier places to make money.
[Dina Tochluk]
Yeah. And so you can definitely have a very comfortable lifestyle. And you can make, you know, money.
I mean, we were just talking about like, there’s only you can do more than one thing here, like you don’t have to be boxed in. And I think that that’s a big advantage, you know, and even the slowness, like people always joke about all can’t stand going to the bank or doing this or doing that. But really, if you find Oh, my God, those are 10 minutes of quiet you get, you know, or that’s 10 minutes you can.
So it’s just really adjusting to the lifestyle. But I think that there’s a lot of opportunities here. There really is, you know, there’s a lot of things that the country could could use that we don’t have.
And there’s a lot of things that the country gives that people can use for themselves personally.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you’ve just got to be very careful at the moment investing in Airbnbs anywhere in Costa Rica, like you really need to know your numbers.
And, you know, we’ll have an advisor that does know the numbers, you know, because every single area of Costa Rica is very, very different, you know, from Aranauta, Monteverde, Santa Teresa, Mamon Antonio, Tamarindo, like all very, very different. And the demand and supply is very different as well. And also things are changing at the moment, you know, on the Airbnb front as well.
I always say is just don’t rely on Airbnb to make money. I mean, if that’s your thing, like, come on, man, like everyone else is doing that. So, you know, yeah.
I mean, as you know, that’s where, you know, we differ a little bit just because of our luxury travel network and also direct marketing. But not everyone has not everyone wants to have a business, you know, and that’s sometimes what it is, where some people just want a place and they’ll be like, look, let it make a couple of percent and appreciate in value over the coming years. And I’m good with that.
[Dina Tochluk]
Yeah. And I think that’s where it got a little bit skewed was like after that COVID that so many people were looking at like a little bit of easy money. But I really do think that there is a real market for luxury tourism.
And, you know, there’s beautiful homes here that do fantastic that they work it, you know, and it’s like, you know, still and it is a great market and it’s a great business, but it is a job, you know. So I think that with that outlook, you know, you can definitely go either way. But I would I would avoid Airbnbs as your main income.
You’re right now.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Is there a question, Dina, that I haven’t asked you that you would like me to ask?
Costa Rica’s Tourism Infrastructure Growth
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, you know, I think that that a lot of times is and I’ve kind of mentioned it a little bit right now in this interview is that Costa Rica is very small, you know, and I think that when people come here for the first time and they may land in one place or another, they don’t realize how different it is from, let’s say, Guanacaste down to the Osa. You can hit every beach in between and it’s all very different and every bubble is very different, not only the landscape, the temperature, the humidity, the type of people that the town, you know, attracts and that are actually like residents. And then, like I mentioned before, the mountains, you know, it’s like a whole different, you know, vibe and area.
So I really encourage people to explore, you know, because there’s nothing worse than buying a house in a beautiful place, but realizing afterwards that you wanted to live two hours away. So it’s it’s really important. And I and I appreciate those people that do take the time and I discourage people like really like to if they come very gung-ho, but I know in my heart of hearts that this isn’t the right town for them, you know, like that it’s a great investment.
I know you love the house and I know that, you know, people think I’m nuts, but it’s like I’ll encourage people, like just take a day and go look at it and if you realize this is it, you know, the house will be here. And sure enough, you know, it’s a 50-50, but most of the time people are very appreciative and they do, they do fall in love with something that is two hours away or it reinforces that they want to be here. And I think that that’s always important.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, it’s just so much here that like, again, if it’s your first trip, explore the country first.
I mean, you can look at a bit of real estate in every areas, but, you know, as we say in England, horses for courses, you know, there’s areas of Costa Rica for different people. Exactly. Well, my last question for you, Dina, is I’ve kept you long enough.
If you had $500,000 to invest into a business or real estate in Costa Rica, what would you invest it in and why?
Coyote and Manzanillo: Next Growth Markets
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, that’s a good question. So I think that if it’s like a long-term investment right now, if it was do or die right this second, I think I would love long-term to invest in the Coyote area, which is just north of Manzanillo. I would also invest in Manzanillo.
I think that a lot of families are coming here and they want that land and they want that elbow room from their neighbors and close to schools, which both bilingual, Hermosa bilingual school is close by. And then the Waldorf school is also close by. So that has some traction.
And then if it was short term, I would definitely be doing a single family home that’s close here to town. And I don’t think you could go wrong. It’s really what you need to do sooner.
[Richard Bexon]
Definitely. Well, Dina, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you here on the podcast. For anyone that wants to contact Dina, I’ll put all of her contact details down in the description, but very much appreciate you taking the time to chat with us.
[Dina Tochluk]
Well, thank you so much, Richard. It’s always a pleasure.
[Richard Bexon]
No worries. Have a great day, Dina.
[Dina Tochluk]
All right. You too.
[Richard Bexon]
Bye.
