Introduction
Richard Bexon: Good morning, Christian. How you doing?
Christian Roberts: Good morning, Richard. Doing really well. How about you?
Richard Bexon: Good, man, good. I appreciate you taking the time out of what I know is a very busy schedule to chat with us. Last time we did the podcast, I know the listeners thoroughly enjoyed it, so it’s an absolute honor to have you back on here.
Christian Roberts: No, it’s an honor to be here. I think, again, like I said last time, you do a phenomenal job with this podcast and it’s very important for our Echo ecosystem and, and to get things moving. So you’re definitely a leader in that. I’m really thankful for your time here.
Market Resilience and Stability
Richard Bexon: Not at all. Not at all. The first question I always like to ask people is to get, you know, there’s been some volatility in western markets recently, you know, and I think that that’s probably going to continue for the foreseeable future. But I mean, what do you see happening here in Costa Rica, Christian?
Christian Roberts: So, you know, I think Costa Rica has something that is interesting and a lot of people and I, I, and we’ve mentioned this in the past, Costa rica is a 50 year in the making market. You know, like, like we’ve said before, it’s an overnight success. Again, 50 years in the making. So it’s a surprise to a lot of people. It’s new to a lot of people. But the reality is that the fundamentals have been worked on for a long, long time. So I think that even if things are shifting in the States or in other parts of the world and you’re, and you’re getting big movements, Costa Rica sits safely in the middle. Right? We are not a huge enough market tied into the big financial world. San Jose is not known to be a global financial center. So if anything, we are a place that has a small market with very identified niches in our economy that have been growing steadily. Medical Devices AG, I think, has been doing great. Tourism, you know, there’s just a bunch of things that have been, you know, consistently doing really well. So from that perspective, I think we’re, we’re fairly safe from a lot of the ruckus that goes on in the, in the financial world. Having said that, we do depend a lot on the US and especially now post Covid, the US has regained a market share, an important market share in terms of our, our, our visitation. So obviously, you know, we want them to be healthy. Having said that, the client that comes to Costa Rica has also evolved or been complemented. I would say, I think before we would be, we would address more of a middle high class of US Travelers. Now we’ve also added post pandemic the very high end and I would say the global high end. And so I think we have a, and you can see it in the amount of expenditure that it’s gone up 15, 20% across the board over the last couple of years. And I think that’s important because at the end those are more resilient clients. So those are guys that because the stock market went down or because there’s, you know, a huge election, they’re not going to stop traveling, they’re not going to stop doing stuff coming to Costa Rica, they might stop buying for a bit. But, but I think the fundamentals, and we can discuss that a little bit further are here so that when they do come back, they’ll come back and say, hey, you know, hey, I’m in a different, different story, it’s a different place. You know, maybe this still makes sense. And I don’t think they’ll get hit that hard.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, I mean, I agree, you know, you and I chatted before just about. Costa Rica has always been slow and steady, you know, and you know, it’s, I think it’s, you know, in the 90s, the no artificial ingredients of like Costa Rica is pretty organic on all fronts. You know, when you look at any of those, you know, industries. But it’s not and, and that’s why when we see these huge market swings, you know, we don’t get affected here that much because it is slow and steady. And I think it’ll continue to be like that. Especially you know, as you mentioned there with higher end clientele coming here. They’re not that affected. Our tourism numbers continue to increase. Costa Rica is not getting cheaper, you know, it’s getting more expensive. So the type of client coming is more high end. And you know, fortunately for Costa Rica is that client is not as impacted in that market volatility.
Costa Rica’s Authentic Market Advantages
Christian Roberts: I agree 100%. I would add one thing to slow and steady. Real Costa Rica is real. And that’s the huge difference. And that’s why I mentioned this is something that has been built over the last 50 years in many senses. I mean over the last 50 years we’ve duplicated rainforest coverage. So yeah, the trees are here. It’s not that we take you to a place where there’s, they’re all around us. You know, tourism has been embedded into the culture, into the education all the way from school, you know, you know, people understand that it’s important to us. You can travel anywhere in the country and people will talk English, they’ll take dollars, they’ll, you know, you’ll find a hotel, you’ll find tours. It’s embedded into the country’s DNA. And then in addition to that, I think from a political perspective, Don Pepe Figueres ex president, eliminated the army. The focus on education, focus on health, all of these things have created realities. So this is a market, you know, going back to volatility. Things that are not real don’t stand volatility and don’t stand downturns because nobody has enough power to back up something that’s not real. When all the market’s hitting you in the face, okay, it’s dumb to do that. The thing here is that it is what it is, okay? So it’s not like we’re holding on to trees while everything works and then, you know, we’ll drop it is what it is. It’s a very genuine market with very real offering, with a very real experience. So I think that’s the huge, huge difference. And, and so the world, the word, sorry, real is something I would add to slow and steady because that’s what’s going to hold true for the next, hopefully 50, 100 years.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, I agree. I’m just reminded here by the childhood story of the three little pigs and the wolf. You know, Costa Rica is the stone house, not the straw or sticks.
Christian Roberts: Yeah, I like that, I like that analogy.
Foreign Direct Investment Growth
Richard Bexon: I mean, foreign direct investment, you know, in Costa Rica continues to increase. I mean, it was insane. 2023, you know, was the biggest year yet. I mean, what’s driving this?
Christian Roberts: Well, 2024 is going to be a bigger year. Yesterday and the day before I had the, the privilege of getting invited to the btm, which is the, the trade market that Procomer does every year. And it’s amazing. I mean they had more people than last year. The different industries. What’s happening is that some of the bigger industries that we mentioned, you know, medical devices, microchips, you know, and just general more value add services and infrastructure mainly around the free trade zones and some of those benefits around that have grown so much that now they’re bringing in the next level of companies. Right. So, so you’ll have the Intels, but then you’ll have the people that supply stuff to intel also wanting to come down and, and so on. Right. And so I think that what that’s doing, it’s really Strengthening those ecosystems. The other thing that’s happening, you know, and it’s not new to anybody, is the near Turing move, you know, towards, you know, getting closer to the US Market where you have a lot of people moving to Mexico. But Costa Rica has a great advantage in a couple of things. And I think it’s our relationship with the U.S. patent office. You know, we have fast tracks there. We have a lot of things there that give a lot of confidence from an IP perspect, so intellectual property and all of that. If you’re, if you have high value add, manufacturing or processing or whatever, this is the country where you want to do it, it’ll be protected. You have also the workforce, the qualified workforce for that is, is probably a lot more available. And then you already have these clusters of, you know, that, that have been 20 years in the making. So you have engineers that started off working for Intel a long, long time ago that today can run companies. Right. And they come from a different culture and they come from a different technical formation. And so I think that we are now reaping the benefits of those clusters in our, in our country. And I think that that makes it a real, you know, a real important difference in, in the market as well. Plus what you said, you know, political stability, the institutional, you know, the institutions here are very robust. Personal safety, I mean, it’s, it’s just, you know, we, we’ve been blessed a, of being in the middle of a lot of, of things that move, but gladly, historically haven’t hit us.
Balancing Growth with Affordability
Richard Bexon: Yeah, you know, I mean, I think my biggest concern for Costa Rica is at what point does it get too expensive? Because it never, things never get cheaper, you know, and Costa Rica is just, when you compare it to its neighboring countries, I think is the most expensive. So if I’m a business looking to near shore, if that makes sense, Costa Rica is probably the most expensive place to do it, you know, and it’s going to be that balance between investment and then also as just an educated, you know, affordable workforce.
Christian Roberts: Yeah, I think that’s a big challenge globally, not only in Costa Rica, obviously for us, it’s, it’s more visible here, but it’s something we’re seeing everywhere. And it’s, it’s easy. I mean, it’s, it’s, it should be structural. If you look at, you know, tourism and how fast the demand side can grow vis a vis how slow the product offering can grow, you know, it just makes sense, you know, how, how. And let’s just look at a couple of things. How fast can Boeing or Airbus or where build airplanes, you know, to be able to address a person that can all of a sudden say, hey, I want to travel, I want to, I want to jump on a plane. So it takes a lot of time. And if we go into a hotel, if we go into creating the infrastructure for people to get to these different places, the demand just outgrows the capacity to, to, to tend to it. I mean, by many, many times. And so I think that what’s happening in Costa Rica is that we’re a very small market. And you’ve said it many times. I mean, when you look at, you know, places like Cancun, you know, and, and things like that, where you have 18 million people, 16 million people flying into one destination, and here we have, you know, 3 million out of which probably 1.2 real tourists. And we are, we’re, we’re this size. Right? So one thing I, that I, I, I don’t know what the number is, but I would, I think it’s safe to say that Costa Rica’s brand is a hundred times bigger than what we really are. Okay? So that’s, you know, that we have to be realistic, that that’s a thing. I mean, and when that happens, it’s a supply and demand issue. You know, the elasticity of the market is going to make it more expensive just because there’s more people wanting to go there than the capacity that the country actually has. But to that point, I think Costa Rica made a conscious decision from the private sector to focus on high value, low volume. I mean, yeah, high value, low volume. And so from that perspective, if you ask a lot of the people, or at least in my conversations with a lot of the people that lead the industry, what they say is, hey, we wouldn’t want to go over 5 million people. I mean, I don’t think 5 million tourists is a huge number. I think it’s right number for a country like our, probably already too much in certain areas. So I think that that mentality is consistent also with what’s happening now. It’s not the reason why a lot of the prices have gone up. You know, it’s not because we decided to do that. It’s those external factors. And then there’s obviously inflation, there’s obviously the exchange rate. There’s different things that affect that. Having said that, I think we need to as a country consciously open up and understand what really creates the value for Costa Rica, for our offering. And that’s culture and people. It’s not even nature. And, and you you know this really well. When you ask the people leaving the airport, you know, what did you like the most of the country? It’s not nature, it’s people. It’s, it’s my conversations with the guys at the store, with the tour guy, with the, the people in the city, in the town or whatever. That is what, what is really different, right? That’s where people really connect. Nature is more to heal and you know, it really gives you a different, different thing. But the reality is that the personal connection, I think, is what really is strong here. So if we start pricing the local people out, and if we start pricing them not only from a tourism perspective, but also from a residential perspective, then we’re going to start losing that. And all of a sudden you’re going to be in Disney. You know, it’s you, you know, Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse and a bunch of tourists and reality. You’re going to miss on the local essence of some of these places. So I do think that is something that the governments need to address. I think, you know, there’s been a lot of talk, you know, about gentrification and displacement and all, but it, but that’s not the fault, you know, that’s not the private sector’s fault. That’s not the investor’s fault. It’s the fault of the local municipalities because they are not zoning places for people to be able to stay. And you know, they’re just, I think that’s the big issue. They’re just seeing money, you know, and they’re seeing, you know, new hotels, new new houses, you know, million dollar houses, you know, more taxes. So they’re not, they’re, they’re not protecting their people. And I think that’s a big thing that, that we need to work on and create some consciousness around that at the local government level. And then at the executive power at the government, it’s kind of giving some incentives maybe to be able to help those communities do that. Because the municipalities regrettably don’t have the best people running them. In a lot of the cases, it becomes very political and not technical. And so at the end of the day, urban planning is not something that is common, not here or anywhere for that matter, in Latin America, I would say.
Individual Investment Strategy
Richard Bexon: And also experience. I mean, they don’t have experience doing that. You know, I mean, there’s a lot of municipal engineers that just don’t have that experience either. You know, we speak to them a lot and they just don’t have it. Let me change gears a little bit here, Christian. I Mean, you know, a lot of people listening to this are not, you know, institutional or large, you know, business investors. They’re just kind of regular individuals. What is the best way that you think for regular individuals to invest in Costa Rica and what advice would you give them?
Christian Roberts: So the good thing is I’m a regular individual, so I can, I can really, I can really convey my experience. So I mean, I think when people are looking to invest in Costa Rica, there’s, there’s two things. One is the personal conviction to what you’re doing. It’s like any business, if you aren’t passionate about a business, you’re not going to be successful in it. Okay? Doesn’t matter. I mean, it’s going to be difficult for you to be successful if you don’t hate going to work. Right. I think it’s the same thing when you’re investing in any country and Costa Rica is no different. So you need to understand and vision what you really want to build and then go through the process in a smart way and understand that this is a long term commitment and you don’t want to cut, you don’t want to cut corners, you don’t want to cut costs, you want to do things right because at the end of the day, that’s what you’re trying to build. So if you want to have do building a house, then don’t expect that everything works and you can have a phenomenal stay. When you come to Costa Rica, nothing’s going to work, it’s going to be a mess and in five years you’re going to have to rebuild it all over again. So I think it’s really envisioning, you know, what you really want to do and understanding that it needs to be done right. What is doing it right like in anything else, you know, learn about it, ask the people. You know, go really get in touch with the people that are doing what you like and figure out how they did it. It’s again, it’s not different than anywhere else. There’s not a way of investing in Costa Rica or a way of building in Costa Rica that is different. It’s the same thing, same brick and mortar, same process. You know, it’s just going in and doing it the right way. Now, most people don’t have that capacity because they are not builders or developers or haven’t done it ever in their life. So why would you think you’re going to do it the first time, right? In Costa Rica, it’s that simple. Again, go look for somebody that can help you do it. I think that’s important. But beyond that, you know, my recommendation would be have a lot of clarity on what you want in line with the first thing I said, but then also what you want this to be for you and your family in the next 10 years so that you can try and foresee what’s going to happen when you get there. Because we also find a lot of people that come in and say, I want a beachfront house. And they go and buy a beachfront lot and build a house and, and it’s, it’s great. You know, the first year, then the second year, they’re, they’re going crazy because there’s, you know, it’s always public. There’s a lot of people, there’s a lot of action. I can’t get my kids run out. I can’t. So often they didn’t design what they really wanted. They, they fell in love with an immediate experience that they can still have. I mean, you want to go to beachfront hotel, go, or you want to rent a house, rent it. But if you’re trying to protect your kids or do it, then figure out where is a close enough place that has the characteristics that you might want. Phenomenal ocean views, connection to nature, whatever, and then go do it there. Look at infrastructure, you know, look at infrastructure as well, what’s already there and not being deployed today. If it’s not being deployed Today, it’ll take 10 years to get deployed. That’s the rule of, of most of. Of our towns, regrettably. So I think that that’s, that’s something that you need to count on, try and, and fix it yourself. But again, I mean, I think I have a lot of conversations with people that they found the greatest deal, right? And when you look at it, dude, they’re ripping you off. I mean, you know, everything around you is worth half or less, you know, and they just don’t do the research. So I think it’s basic, nothing different. If this question was in regard to Colombia or, you know, New York, same thing. Don’t skip the fundamentals. Don’t get emotional about buying and just be very objective in trying to buy at the right price, trying to, you know, really have clarity with what you want, and then putting a team together to help you execute it. I don’t know if that was the essence of your question, but I, I think it’s.
Richard Bexon: No, it’s, it’s. Look, I mean, I think it’s. It just comes down to. Is in Costa Rica, I think whatever it is you’re trying to do probably is only as good as the team that you have on it.
Christian Roberts: So, like anything else.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, like, like I guess you said the fundamentals are the same in anything. It doesn’t matter whether it’s in your home country or, or you’re foreign. I think, you know, a lot of people, like Costa Rica is not a country that you can make a quick buck in unless you, like, you’re really in it, if that makes sense. And even then, it’s difficult. Like, it’s just not easy to make a quick buck here.
Due Diligence in Developments
Christian Roberts: Oh, and you said it, I mean, again, clarity on what you want. Are you an investor that wants to make a quick buck or are you a homebuyer? You know, and a guy that wants to have a home in Costa Rica or wants to have a second home in Costa Rica or wants to have a second home that they can also rent while they’re not here? You know, you need to know what you want and then go out and look for it. If you’re an investor, you know, the rule, the, the, the, the geometrical rule is the same for anything. You’ll look at a hundred things to get one. Yep. You know, look at, you know, private equity, some of the best global investors. I mean, anybody, they’ll tell you it’s 1 out of 100. So what makes you think you’re gonna go look at five opportunities and hit the one, Right? It’s the same thing. I’m gonna be an investor. And that’s what you’re after. It’ll take 100 to go get the one. If you want to buy a house or you want to, you know, anything else, then you just need to find whatever fits the bill. Right. And, and, and, and, and that’s it. But I think it’s clarity. But, you know, one thing I would say very early on, talk to a good lawyer. That’ll help you understand, you know, a lot of the legal implications. The legal system here is different, you know, where Napoleonic Code vis a vis the Anglo Saxon code or structure. So it works, you know, somewhat different. The process is the same, but it has its, its intricacies. And then there’s also a lot of things that, you know, basic fundamentals like water that you know really well. You have to have water. I mean, yes, it rains all year round. Yes, we have a ton of water. But then there’s. How do you connect to that? Water is a, is a, is a big issue. So those would be the, the things. Now the other thing right now that is Interesting is, is look at, you know, the projects and things that are already existing and getting done, which I think, you know, I had a meeting with a gentleman earlier this week where he has a, you know, a 34 hectare property that is neighboring to Las Catalinas and neighboring to Discovery Land. And he bought it 20 years ago. Right. And so, you know, it was, it’s just, you know, I told him, you can try and do something now and that’s fine, and you’ll, you’ll do really well compared to what you bought it for. You can wait for a year, you can wait for five or ten, and you’ll do really well, you know, at any time because he’s, he’s sitting in the, in the hotspot. Right. So I think that’s very important, understand, you know, your ecosystem because even if you’re just buying a house, you, you want to buy a house like, like, like your house in San Francisco or New York or Miami, in a place that, you know, not only gives you what you need from a logistics perspective and, and an experience perspective, but hopefully that retains value. And so in those more remote areas, that is, that is a lot harder. So try to identify, you know, some of those bigger projects that, that you say, okay, this is going to help me sustain value. Because if you’re just buying a property in the middle of a thousand hectares of additional property that nobody’s doing anything on, you have to be realistic. Your house is going to be worth whatever it costs you to build until the other crazy guy that thinks exactly like you thinks it’s worth more than what you paid for it.
Richard Bexon: What’s your viewpoint, Christian? Because, I mean, over the past couple of years, you know, I mean, I would say, I’m going to say developers have been kind of rushing out there. I mean, you see new developments coming up left, right and center. I mean, it’s quietened down a little bit. But you know, ones where they don’t quite have the permits, but they’re getting people to invest in, with the, that when they get the permit, they’ll get their plot of land, etc. I mean, in your experience, I mean, what would you say to investors that are looking to get in an entry point in a development in today’s market that hasn’t, or that it may even have its permits been be brand new, but there’s nothing built there, if that makes sense.
Christian Roberts: Yeah. So I think again, it’s not different than anywhere else. At the end of the day, I can invest in an illusion of a building in Manhattan Yeah, with the same risk. Right. So be smart about that. Identify, you know, there’s, it’s a risk reward analysis and in real estate you can have core strategies where I’m buying an asset and leasing it to Walmart, you know, and I’ll get a 5%, 6% return and probably with zero or very little debt, or I might be going out and buying lots and trying to do this and you know, very risky where I can lose it all, but I could make 30, 40% returns. Right. So it’s the same thing. So I think when you look at that, you just need to be very clear that depending on where the project is, that’s one, one way of understanding the risk but also depending on who the developer is. So you want to understand that or you want to know the developer knows what they’re doing and that they have financial backing to get it done. And the experience, again, a guy coming out of the blue that was a, you know, artist in la, but love surfing, fell in love with Nosara and then all of a sudden is building 36 homes, most likely is going to screw up in 20 different things just because there’s a learning curve that he hasn’t gone through unless he is, you know, recognizes that he can bring, you know, teams that can help him do that. And they have been, you know, there’s been very smart business people and I think that’s the key word, business people. You don’t have to be a very smart developer, you have to be a very smart business person where you can recognize, hey, this is what I want to do, this is the vision. But then again going back to putting together the right team. So I think you need to understand to your specific question what stage the processes of the development it is, it’s in. And then depending on how much risk you want to take, understand that going early into a deal because you’re going to get a 10 discount or a 20 discount that is going to be delivered two years from now that has all this risk might not be worth that 10 or 20% discount.
Richard Bexon: Yeah.
Christian Roberts: Now on the other end, if you want to be able to, to do that, you know, then, and if you want to do that because sometimes, and especially now in Costa Rica, there’s very low inventory in general. So you know, that’s the way to get into, into deals going in early because everything’s pretty much new built. So make sure you understand well who the developer is, who their technical team is. I would focus a lot on who their technical team is. You’ll know if good legal team, if they have a good construction company, if they have a good project management team, you know, you’ll know that they’ll get it done. Even if they don’t know anything about the business, they have the right people executing it. And so I think that that’s something important. And then be careful from a legal perspective on how you give them the money. Okay. And what are the thresholds that, and, and what are the, the, the drivers of delivering that money to them? And, and you know, when, when those things get, get done, going back again to just having the right lawyers, I mean, the right lawyers will let you know, you know, this is a point of no return. Once you do this, you lost that money, if the guy doesn’t deliver, etc. Etc. I don’t know if that answers your question.
Richard Bexon: No, I think it very much does.
Christian Roberts: I think it’s a, it’s a specific question, but it’s kind of like a, like a very basic.
Richard Bexon: Yeah, I mean, look, I think it comes down to common sense. It’s just, you know, it’s, I think I always say, look, Costa Rica is like caveat, empty or buy everywhere. Like your recourse is very limited. Any legal action is going to take a long period of time and be costly. So you just need to understand that. So I think whenever you go into a deal, you just need to go in a deal going, worst case scenario, if I lost everything and didn’t get anything, am I okay with that based on, you know, the return? You know, and I always bring that like anything. Yeah. You know, but I mean, but I.
Christian Roberts: Will say one thing to that because I think what you mentioned is right. The legal system here is not as expedite as we would like it, but it works.
Richard Bexon: It works.
Christian Roberts: Yeah, it works. And, and that, it’s sad to say, is relatively unique in, in Latin America. It works just takes time. It just, it’s just going to take a little bit more time. So my big thing there wouldn’t be that you’ll lose everything because there’s no legal recourse. But it’ll just take time. I mean, it’ll eventually work. It’ll take a little bit longer. And then one thing that’s important constitutionally, and a lot of people, a lot of countries say the same thing, but, but constitutionally, foreigners and ticos have the exact same rights.
Richard Bexon: Yep.
Christian Roberts: There’s no difference if you’re a tourist here that came for a week or if you’re a, you know, temporary resident, or if you’re, you know, A permanent resident that is not a Costa Rican city, You know, it doesn’t make a difference. So there’s, there’s no difference in that. So it’s not like many other countries where if you are a local, you have an advantage here. You’re, you’re leveled. So I think that those two things. Sorry for kind of putting. No, I think commercial, I think they’re important because there is certainty and, and there is, you know, institutional, a legal system and system and framework that, you know, protects your rights.
Strategic Growth Regions
Richard Bexon: Yeah. I’ve got two more questions for you here, and one of them is the last one that I love to, love to ask, but which area, like for someone that’s investing in Costa Rica over the next five years, and let’s just use beach destinations, you know, just because I think that that’s it. Well, actually can be anywhere. What areas of Costa Rica do you think that people should be looking at for a five year, you know, kind of outlook in Costa Rica and why.
Christian Roberts: Okay, so I think, you know, do you want the short answer or the long answer?
Richard Bexon: Give me the medium answer, man.
Christian Roberts: Okay, so to put things, or to put my answer into context, you have Waldorf Astoria and Ritz Carlton opening at the end of the year. That’s going to give us another 24, 36 months of Runway, of just, you know, pure push. You have Four Seasons that’s going to be defending their, their reigning position. That’ll be another, you know, push. And then you have at least two huge name brands that should be announced in the next semester in that same area. So Papa Joe, that is around that area is, is going to do really, really well for the next five to seven years. Okay. Because you have these huge brands with very, very high prices on their branded residences, very limited inventory around them. Okay. So in general, you know, that’s, that’s important. The airport getting some work in Liberia. And so I, I think that, you know, it’s going to be a little bit behind the demand, but it’ll, it’ll, it’ll get better. And then in the southern, southern part, I think, you know, a lot of the markets have been getting a little bit more complemented. So you have in Nozada and Santa Teresa, a lot more services, a lot better schooling. I think transactions are now a lot more fluid. There’s, there’s a lot more transparency as to how you measure the market. And then I think you’re, you’re, you have, you’re having people live long enough in these markets that are a proof of, you know, of concept, to put it in some way. And so I think that Nosara, Santa Teresa, Papagayo are solid markets. You have the Central Pacific that is doing really, really well. Marriott Los, in that area is, is consolidated really well. They have, you know, very low inventory left to develop. So we’ll see what’s, you know, how the rest of the demand is going to accommodate itself. You have a lot of high rises coming up in Jaco and, and things like that. So I think that’s a different type of market in that area. But I think, you know, the Central Pacific is going to continue to do well. And then we have, you know, these special places that, you know, you, you refer to as phenomenal performers. And I agree with you, like Manuel Antonio, that’ll I have the, they have the basic fundamentals. So I say that these markets at the beach are the ones that always have what I consider the right locations, the right distances, the right complements. So they’ll do well. But then in addition to that, you have La Fortuna, Monteverde, you know, and these are mountain locations that are doing really, really well. Okay. Because what’s happening now is that a lot of the people that came to the beach want to complement their lifestyle with, with, with more direct contact to the jungle, to, to, you know, to, to. To nature. The weather, you know, it gets hot and humid, you know, so they, they move certain times of the year. We’re seeing a very strong market in La Fortuna in that area because it’s a great compliment. It’s a, you know, an hour or a couple of hours at the most from pretty much all the locations in Guanacaste. And it’s a different thing. It’s a huge lake, the volcanoes, the weather’s different. It’s a completely different experience. Same, same in Monteverde. So I think that those, those locations solid as well. And then one thing that I think is not something too many people talk about, but it’s strong, it’s slowly getting stronger. Is the Central Valley demand and here in, in San Jose. And why? Because I think at least half of the offering of experiences are based out of San Jose. You know, in, in the country. If you want to go whitewater rafting, if you want to go to the Poise Volcano, if you want to do coffee tours, if you want to do horseback riding tours, if you want to, you know, anything that has to do with, with that. Most of that is. Is based out of San Jose. And a lot of very interesting things have been popping up in these locations that I think, you know, are making a strong case for, you know, three solid days in the Central Valley during your stay, which again now is almost 14 days in average, on average. And then, you know, in, in addition to that, you have, you know, just a, a solid residential market where, you know, people that have also bought in the coast are looking to have a Pieter here in, in San Jose because, you know, you still need, you still have better medical services here, but you know, financial services. Anything you need, you know, is better here than it is in, in the rest of the country. So I think that that is also something that is evolving. That that’s, you know, general lay of the land where, you know, I think, you know, the, for a five year horizon where I would invest. I think that what I would look at are the towns in the middle, you know, the towns in the middle that are especially, it’s clear where you can identify the culture that has differentiated everything else. I think those are going to be the small towns that defend the cultural assets of, you know, the Blue Zone or, or these different areas. So, you know, I, I think things in Samara, Samara, I think is going to be evolving a little bit better in that area. Carrillo, Punta Islita. You know, those areas are in the middle of, of both Nozada and Santa Teresa. You can have that Costa Rican experience 30 years ago, right. You know, you could be walking alone in the beaches and you can be talking to the town and you’ll be friends with everybody. And so it, you know, it, it’s a lot more organic, to put it in some way. Then you’ll have, you know, Marbella, you’ll have, you know, these places that are very close to, to the big volume drivers like Tamarindo and Flamingo and those areas, but are far enough and small enough to where you’ll never have, you know, massive development. So I think that those are going to be cases in the mountains. I think La Fortuna Arenal, all of that area is gonna, gonna really grow a lot. And then, you know, ultimately I think that a general at least feeling I get is that a lot of people are moving a little bit back from the beach towards the mountains. And I’m not referring to man Antonio, I’m referring immediately to the mountains that are a kilometer behind the beach. I think a lot more people come back to what I said earlier. A lot of people are saying, I, I prefer that experience back there, great ocean view, whatever. And then when I want to go into the mess, I’ll go into the mess, have fun have dinner, do whatever. But I hear have a better setting. So I think that Mount Immediate mountain properties are good, good places to also take a look at and probably a lot cheaper still. But I would be careful in looking at development costs because a lot of those locations in the immediate mountains are fairly steep. And so you’ll start having infrastructure costs that’ll go through the roof and you know, utilities and things like that. So. But, but yeah, sorry it wasn’t more specific. There’s. Well, Rod.
How Would You Invest $500,000 Inheritance in Costa Rica?
Richard Bexon: My last question for you, Christian, again which I love to ask everyone is if you had $500,000 to invest, it sounds like in one of these areas, what would you particularly invest it in though? I mean, what would you be looking at?
Christian Roberts: That’s a very good question. If I had half a million dollars, I would look at existing hotels that have additional land and develop residential next to them and complement the hotel with the residences. I think that this is a great business because the land is already a sunk cost for the owner of the hotel. The hotel is able to supply services to residences that I might do because they are residential. Because there’s already an existing hotel, I can pretty much pre sell all of it before I start building. That would be my, my recommendation. And then from the hotelier perspective, he’s getting or there or she’s getting the value of the land into the deal if they want to, or getting bought from it and then they’re getting the additional services that they can sell, you know, and that could mean that these residential units could be sold as suites at a higher price, raising everything, all the ADR for all the others. It would probably be exact same team managing additional volume. So it just makes it more efficient and it’s a lot easier to get funding for residential than it is for hotels. Banks would love it because what banks would see is a de risking of the hotel business by incorporating residential. So if I had half a million, it probably won’t be enough to put together a small hotel, you know, residential component or complement. But I would, I would try and put together, use that for one or two properties where I can, you know, put the business together and then go out and pre sell it. That would be my. That’s where I think there’s a value to uncover in Costa Rica and help substantially a lot of the of the hotels that are carrying a lot of weight.
Richard Bexon: I agree, I agree. Well, Christian, it’s always a pleasure to have you here on the podcast, buddy. I’ll put all of your contact details in the description down below, but very much appreciate you taking the time to join us.
Christian Roberts: Thank you, Richard, for having me and always. Again, congratulations for a great podcast, great messages, and have a safe return home.
Richard Bexon: Thanks, man.
Christian Roberts: Bye.
