210 The future of wellness and hospitality in Costa Rica

[Richard Bexon]

Good morning, Gabriel. How are you doing? 

[Gabriel Saragovia]

I'm doing very well, my brother.

[Richard Bexon]

Good to see you. Yeah, you too, man. It's an absolute pleasure to have you here on the podcast.

And yeah, I'd like to call you one of the gurus and leaders of eco-wellness here in Costa Rica, whether you like it or not, that's what I call you.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

 I'm sporting a pen right now, but if I wasn't, you would see that I was blushing. 

[Richard Bexon]

Well, the question I love to ask everyone at the start of the podcast is, you know, we had a good start, I think, to 2024.

High season was good. I think we're starting to see a little bit of return to seasonality. Markets in the US are starting to soften a little bit.

But I mean, what are you seeing happening here in Costa Rica?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Well, yeah, I've told a lot of people that I believe that the party's over. That doesn't mean that we're descending into darkness. But I think the post-COVID party that Costa Rica felt, and it sounds like a jerk thing to say when so many countries around us are still suffering a pandemic to this point.

But we had such a boom after pandemic that yeah, we've been in a three year situation where every month beats the previous month. And I believe that that has stopped. Probably sometime around April, it took the downswing.

And what I'm seeing and what a lot of my colleagues are seeing, even the most successful hotels are seeing slight differences. We're seeing dailies that are low, selling for the future, that's not where it should be. Not where it was expected to be.

I don't think many budgets are being made, are being respected. I think that it's definitely... But again, numbers are good.

Costa Rica is not going through, not yet through any type of crisis.

[Richard Bexon]

It's still growing. Yeah. I mean, I like to refer to if we've returned to pre-COVID seasonality, just the tide is fire.

I agree with you completely. And we knew this was going to happen. I think that my concern is people that don't understand that that's where we are, or that invested over the last previous six months or 12 months in thinking that that's going to continue and have made some faux pas, because that's where it could be very difficult.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Well, even though we had clarity that things were going to slow down a little bit, we've invested heavily very recently. I think we all believe in Costa Rica. I do think we have to be conscious and careful.

And also for the sake of the country. We love this country. I mean, the last thing I want to see for Costa Rica, which is already happening in a lot of towns, especially beach towns, is to see another Tulum.

I don't know if I can say that. Yeah, 100%. It should show.

And there's a lot of places like that. Overtourism is now a very common word. And it's affecting the whole world.

I don't want to see that for Costa Rica more than it has already occurred.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, I would like to think that Costa Rica has a natural filter. And I say it's more kind of bureaucracy for it not being overdeveloped, if that makes sense, because it's not easy to do stuff here.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Listen, we've spoken before, and I've told you how much the government is a rock in my shoe. And there's so many of us, mid-level developers that are not huge and not tiny, that are often complaining about the government. But by the same token, this is the same government that through whatever you want to call it, definitely bureaucracy is in the mix.

But the formula is complicated. And that's part of the difficulty and the filter that you mentioned. Correct.

Keeps this country green. It's not just, hey, we decided to have 25 or 30% of our land protected. We also made a crazy amount of laws and processes for permitting that are helping keep the country green.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, I mean, if it was easy, this country would be overdeveloped. And some people may even say it is overdeveloped in some areas. And maybe that is true.

But yeah, it's not easy to make a quick buck in this country if you do not know what you're doing.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Yep. This is something that anybody that... Well, I think people that are coming to Costa Rica to kind of test the waters out feel that.

I don't think... We progressed past the point where a lot of Europeans or Americans were coming in and losing their shirt. There was a whole term coined in the book and all that.

And they were coming here and they were just having a bad time. But no, I think it's common knowledge that you got to be well-connected and you got to know yourself.

[Richard Bexon]

Yep. 100%. Well, let's just talk about Rio Perdido a little bit here, because I mean, I'm always intrigued by where the idea and inspiration came from.

Because if you'd have asked me before you started, Gabor, I would have told you you were absolutely nuts. If you'd have been like, hey, dude, we're building this up here, I'd be like, you guys are insane. I can give examples of people that have gone out there and tried to build a location and taken arrows, man, and still taking arrows today.

I mean, where did that inspiration come from, from Rio Perdido? And what do you put its success down to?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

I would love to tell you that it was divine intervention or spiritual protection or things like that. I'm sure there was an element of that. Yeah, of course.

You know, the love there is strong. Sure. But it was also organic and disorderly.

We're very organized, but it was disorderly. I think you know that my family has kind of like a track record going in and falling in love with places, different members of the family, especially in the generation before me, where you find something, you fall in love with it and you make the destination. So the inspiration does come from the land.

But the process, I don't know if that's clear to you. It occurs as you peel it out.

[Richard Bexon]

But I mean, you guys were looking to do another project in Costa Rica, right? Right. And so like, I mean, look, I think land and the energy that comes from it not to get to, you know, kind of out there, dictate what the project should be like, what to do.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Right. Absolutely. So I don't know if you know, our friend, you know, let's let's accept.

Yeah. Yeah. I would I would kind of like to go back to the beginning of that.

You're going to Yeah, I'll put let me pause it right now and I'll start it again.

[Richard Bexon]

So, you know, I mean, I'm always interested of like where the inspiration for a real deal came from, because, again, I mean, you guys created a destination there like you really did. There was nothing around that beforehand. And you guys kind of put that area on the map.

And I know so many, you know, hoteliers here that have very successful hotels that have taken arrows building destinations and still taking arrows and it's not being successful. So, I mean, where did that inspiration, the idea of a real deal come from?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

OK, so I think there's two questions there. So, you know, a lot of people will kind of force an investment to happen. As you know, I have traversed the land.

I'm not going to say all fifty five thousand square kilometers of Costa Rica, but I've been from one end to the other. And the generations before me, as well as, you know, have started projects in destinations that are now very well known. But at the time, they were not really on the map.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

So it's in the lineage, but it's also in that natural desire to want to get to know places, to be an adventurer. And I had been in Miravalles, that part where Rio Perdido is located near the Miravalles volcano, about 15 years ago and thought, wow, what a beautiful part of the country. What a different part of Guanacaste.

When people think of Guanacaste, they think of those savannas and, you know, these like dry tropical forests going into the water. You kind of have like this picture of the vaqueros, of the cowboys. And that is very much Guanacaste.

When you go east of Liberia, you find this amazing volcanic Sierra and it's beautiful and it's, you know, it's very inspiring. That on its own. Yeah.

So as you said, I think, before we were actually looking to do another project that still hasn't been done.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

And kind of got distracted because in finding this place, Rio Perdido, we just thought it was number one, unreal, like beautiful, very different. So even Costa Ricans, friends of mine that were born and bred here and that traveled quite a bit, find it to be exotic. So in seeing this amazing land, we kind of like said, we have to pause everything that we're doing right now.

We've got to focus on this. And that was obviously the spark of the inspiration.

[Richard Bexon]

And you never thought that like, look, this might not be the best idea, like building something in the middle of nowhere. It's not in the middle of nowhere, but like building a destination. Yeah, man.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

I mean, your mind is always saying, don't do that. Do this. But obviously your heart, your spirit, the way you feel that you're like, this is an amazing area.

All the land is available. It's not a national park. It's not owned by somebody that's asking for figures that are unpayable.

You've got these natural qualities that are not only spectacular, but unique. Singularity is a very important edge in any competitive situation. So if you're looking to get seen and to have word of mouth and stuff like that, obviously you've got to do all your homework and do things right.

But if you have something that's wow, that is inspiring to me and I know will be inspiring to others. I've been in this, I've been in this long enough to know that something that really gets me here is probably going to have a similar effect in a lot of conscious minded travelers.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, that's a very unique piece of, even if I just took it of property, just because I mean, hot springs coming out of a cold flowing river is like just very, I've never seen that before.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Cool. And you know, it's funny because just like a lot of Americans haven't seen a dragon fruit or they don't know what a coffee bean looks like, or they have no idea that cacao comes from this beautiful yellow fruit with white pulp. Americans haven't seen springs unless you're like from North Dakota or, or from, I don't know, I could say that some New Yorkers from like North, North Fork or places like that, it might've seen a spring at some point or people that live in Northern Florida, but all the South Floridians that generally don't leave South Florida to drive North, they've never seen springs.

So for them to be in this Canyon, deep Canyon and see like water gushing out of a rock wall, like hot water, it's definitely something that they're not used to. And it's very beautiful. It's nice to see the, the effect that that has on somebody.

[Richard Bexon]

Well, and I mean, seeing a slop for the first time. Yeah. And I mean, the location really is smart though, as well, because again, you guys are half, like you're not that far from the Liberia airport.

So, you know, usually people that come to Costa Rica are doing two or three nights somewhere and then over to the beach for, you know, three nights. So yeah, I mean, it's a shorter trek than our now.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

You know, we talk a lot about inspiration and we talk about just doing things because they seem right. Of course, you know, Rio Perdido was three, four hours from the closest airport. We would have probably not even thought twice about it.

We would have said no, or, you know, said we're going to make our own little, you know, we can roll here, but not try to actually haul people out here. That's why I have so much respect for people that are doing projects that also are doing well. Yeah.

Because, you know, I'm not going to say that we're not proud of what we've done, but we have a factor that's on our side, which, as you mentioned, we're an hour from the Liberia airport. These guys are doing stuff that you have to get on a little plane or a boat or then another car. And it's just like a whole day traveling and people are going there.

Hats off.

[Richard Bexon]

That's pretty, that's pretty cool. Let's change gears a little bit and talk about wellness, because I know that you're, you know, you're in this world. I mean, what is it and how has it evolved in Costa Rica?

Like, where are we today? And I mean, I know this is multi, like, where do you think it's going? But like, what is it like, where are we today?

And where do you think it's going?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Okay, where it's going and where is it in Costa Rica is kind of like a question that I think could be standard or general. Where, what I think wellness is, is a very personal question. And I don't know, I'm going to, I'm going to start with that.

I think your first question. I think, I think wellness in a perfect world wouldn't be a genre. It wouldn't even exist as this subdivision of travel, which has grown exponentially since COVID, since the whole pandemic.

But it's still, like I said, in a more conscious world, I think it would disappear. And I'll tell you why. Because I think the driving factor for every good vacation is based on wellness.

Yep. I don't care who you are. And later, I'll tell you something that we call passive wellness, which is very related to this.

But it doesn't matter if you're like a beer drinking frat boy that has a month to take an awesome vacation. Or, or if you're a yogi from California and need to do like your yoga training. At the end of the day, those two very different travelers are going for wellness reasons.

Obviously, wellness can be everything from connecting with someone that you're traveling with, partner, your family, your kids, whatever, friends. It could be coming here to connect with Costa Ricans. And Costa Ricans, once they open up are very warm and healthy and intelligent people, you know, educated.

So those two different types of travelers are coming for wellness. And, you know, wellness is so many things. It's not really about going to do exercise and eating low carb diet.

That used to be the thing. It has progressed, it has evolved to really encompass every good aspect of life of living. So if you're a conscious traveler, you're traveling for wellness.

Yep. So that's, that's what I think about wellness. I think that it's going to continue to grow as a genre of travel.

But at some point, it's just, I'm not going to say it's going to disappear, people are still going to refer to it. But I think it's going to kind of start to meld into good travel.

[Richard Bexon]

I completely agree. You know, I go on vacation to be present, if that makes sense to attempt to be present, because in my business, I'm in my daily life, I'm so focused, like I, it's very difficult for me to be present. And I think that that's one of the things that vacations allow you to do is to stop and be present and take in everything around you, whether that be your family, your environment, the sounds, etc.

So I agree.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

That presence, again, sometimes you talk about balance and all these people are like, oh, these guys are getting into the whole spiritual, you know, dog, I don't want to listen to that. You know, presence is what makes you feel good when you're at a party, when you're, you know, laying down in a beach or playing a sport. That's presence.

When people talk about Michael Jordan being in the zone back in the day, you know, he's in the zone, his tongue is out, man, that guy was present. Yep. He was there.

And if you're present in a vacation, you rest. If you're not present in a vacation, you come back home and you need another vacation, you know, to go over your so-called vacation. So yeah, presence is not a spiritual word.

Presence just means wellness. It means health. It means, you know, just decompressing.

[Richard Bexon]

But I also think that people, their primary motive for vacation is that wellness, if that makes sense. Meaning that, like, you can go on vacation and wellness is part of it, but it might not be the primary motivator, if that makes sense. It's like, you may come to Costa Rica for nature or see, like, culture, etc.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

You just define passive wellness. We have this thing that we call passive wellness. And basically, it's in the most simple sense.

It's like, you might have come here for whatever reason, but when you leave here, when you leave our place, you're going to feel better. And even if you don't know why, that's passive wellness. We're going to give it to you, even if you're not looking for it, if you're not actively paying for it, you're going to get it.

[Richard Bexon]

So, I mean, I think we know where we are today in Costa Rica with, you know, with wellness. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, if you roll back the clock 20 years ago, people weren't really talking about it as much. Now today, you know, and I remember being in the ICT, it was part of something that they were trying to grow in Costa Rica, it was a small part.

And, you know, and I mean, it's really become a mecca for wellness. And when I say wellness, I mean, that can be anything from ayahuasca retreats, to just yoga, to being outside in nature and forest bathing, and just being in the river and those kinds of things. Where do you think it's going to go?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

So it's really cool that Costa Rica is like this, because I think there's people now in the United States, in Switzerland, in different parts of Asia, that are now looking at, you know, they were talking about wellness, five decades, six decades ago. And more and more, if you go to like Baden-Baden and these places, they've been doing wellness for, you know, generations. So, you know, it's really cool that now a lot of these countries are studying us and saying what happened here.

And I think that one of the things that happened here is what we talked about before, there's a lot of passion, there's a lot of different disciplines and philosophies, and just, you know, outlooks coming together here. So that's, again, that's continuing on where is Costa Rica now. But it sets a very good stage into where it's going.

I think that we are this mecca for wellness. And now a lot of people want to like, they're like, oh, we did this. Now we got to get serious.

Now we got to get studious. Now we got to like make sure the formula is repeated and continues to evolve. So now that they see it and know what happened and happened pretty organically, now everybody wants to get a little bit more formal with it.

But we got to be careful, because by getting too formal with it, we'll stop those natural, beautiful tendencies that make a place so successful in what is happening.

[Richard Bexon]

I mean, everything's been pretty organic in this country, man. If anybody tells you, hey, 50 years ago, we had a plan of where we're going to be today, they'd be lying to you. Like it's been multiple decisions.

I always say Costa Rica woke up one day and said, we have penicillin. Like they were never planning. That wasn't the plan, but it was multiple different decisions that they made to the country.

And, you know, you'd mentioned their national parks, you know, from social healthcare system to education, like to setting tourism up and just the bureaucracy here. You know, it's just organically kind of grown. And I hope, and I'm probably sure it will, that that's going to continue in Costa Rica, because Costa Rica has a natural ability to reject stuff that's not in its DNA.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

The world travel markets have evolved to a point where now they're looking at what's happening here and saying, well, look at that, you know, and that's when wellness inextricably comes together with sustainability. If you, if you're not in a sustainable environment, micro or macro level, it's very difficult to offer a wellness product. So Costa Rica has this amazing canvas for it.

And again, to continue where to, with the whole, where it's going question, it's, it's, it's going to good places. I think that there's good, good enough people at the helm that we're not going to squander this starting with, you know, a lot of us in the, in the private sector that are applying the right kind of pressure, but there's, there's some good people in the government. I really have to, again, I spend a lot of time criticizing, but there's a, there's some good talent in the government and we're hoping that they're as passionate and as strong to protect and evolve.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah.

[Richard Bexon]

I mean, one of the great things about the government here is they haven't got that involved, if that makes sense, that like that's the kind of the beauty of it. I mean, they kind of do a little bit, but it's not like overpressuring, if that makes sense.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Are you speaking specifically about wellness and about sustainability, or are you talking about in general getting involved?

[Richard Bexon]

In general, it's a very, let's say, fair government when it comes to business, if that makes sense. Yes, restrictive on taxes and stuff, but like it's pretty relaxed out there.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Yeah, definitely. San Jose has gotten a little bit away from that, but this is a pretty relaxed country. You can't have a lot of relaxed country if the government isn't relaxed.

So sometimes I wish they weren't so relaxed.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, but it's the beauty of it as well. Like it's the strength also becomes the weakness, etc.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Costa Rica has embodied the yin yang, and the yin yang is the balance and is the presence and is the key to true wellness. It's something that comes from, I don't know if it's Taoism, it's definitely from Asia, from way far east, and we're doing it better now. So yeah, I hope that doesn't strike a bad chord with anybody, but Costa Rica is doing it better.

And that's why I think there's a lot of future in a lot of eyes going to be, if you're not looking at Costa Rica already, you will be looking at Costa Rica in the future when it comes to specifically wellness.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. My wife is in the world of childbirthing and I suppose, lactancy consulting and nature. I always say to her, I'm like, look, if I could start a business today, I mean, I could start a business, but like if I had to start a business today and it was aligned with it, I think natural fertility dude is going to be a part of like those vacations that are centered around that, but in a natural way, I think that there is, that's a great business.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Listen, when we build a room, I know that this seems like it's not part of the same question, but it totally is. When we build a room, I don't want to put the wifi right next to someone's head in their bed. So when you're saying that your wife is, it's funny how you said it, you said she's into lactation consulting, childbirthing.

I think I inverted that. And then you said nature. How often when you talk to someone in an urban environment in the first world, will they put those three together?

And the answer is more rarely than they should. So the cool thing is that, you know, that your wife sees it. And a stage for that to be, you know, for you to think about where is that wifi antenna going to be located?

Or maybe it won't be a one at all. Like a guest will come in and say, I want an EMF free vacation. Can you please connect everything in the room?

Boom, done. Not only do we do it, but we're not asking the tech guy how to do it. Everybody's got to do it because it's a standard part.

And if you want that room to be free of any waves and you want to be present, but you also want to be free of all the crap and you want to have organic food and you want to have clean water and you want to breathe amazingly clean air. And you want to have a beautiful discussion with a bartender at the resort that night. And by the way, I hate that word resort.

I rarely use it, but this is a general, you know, if you get all that in mind, including the wifi and Switzerland, Switzerland fought or still fights 5g antennas. Yep. They know their shit, man.

Switzerland is one of the few countries and Costa Rica needs to learn from them that keeps all the best produce and products to themselves.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

They don't export their best wine. You don't even hear of Swiss wine. And when you go to a supermarket or when you go on to a wine app or whatever, that's because they don't, they keep their stuff.

They're good. Cheese is there for them. There are good herbs, organic herbs, or they don't want to export that.

And yeah, maybe they have the wealth to be able to make that decision. But you know, do you think Costa Rica will suffer economically if they keep 20% of their awesome coffee to themselves? Yeah.

I don't think so. I think, I think Costa Rica is reserved for drink the best coffee. And very sadly, I would say 80% of the Costa Rica drinks.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love coffee.

I love coffee, man. I go to my local coffee store here and they roast it for me straight away and put it in my bag. And like, it's yeah.

You know, yeah.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

I get coffee here that I think you can't get it anywhere else in the world. It tastes like chocolate, but there's no chocolate in it. It's just the way the grain is so rich and so beautiful that I think Americans get shocked, kind of like the culture shock that happens when you travel.

You can also get a taste shock where they're like, wow, what is this? Is this coffee?

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. I mean, I just got back from France. Me and my father were in France and I bought Costa Rican coffee with me and we were drinking Costa Rican coffee, but it ran out halfway through the vacation.

And so we had to move to, you know, French coffee. Yeah. So, and he was like, wow, I can really taste the difference now.

And he typically drinks French, you know, coffee, but he's just like, Rich, we need more of that Costa Rican coffee. So yeah, I know what I'm bringing next time we go. But I mean, what do you think of the tourism project?

And I say projects because it sounds very large that are still missing in Costa Rica. Where do you think the gaps still are?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Again, I am into slow development, so I don't think of gaps. Yeah. I think that everything as far as product is where it needs to be.

So there's nothing missing for me. Where they're going to fill it in a little more, and I'm totally on board with it, is all this five-star hospitality development. We're seeing that, you know, Costa Rica, I think, has finally realized it took a while.

And again, this is going to, this is probably going to strike a bad chord in some people, but I surmise that the vast majority of listeners are very conscious and they'll understand. We don't want to compete with neighboring countries, whether it's El Salvador or Panama or Nicaragua or Colombia. And again, I think all those countries have beautiful, even El Salvador, yes, has beautiful destinations and places, but we don't want to compete with them.

Because we have a few things that set us apart and we have to really take advantage of that. And Costa Rica has finally realized that. And so that can take us to open up in different markets, including the five-star market.

So we're finally seeing more than just, you know, the four seasons. In the next couple of years, you're going to see, you know, a boom in true five-star hospitality.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. But I think the one thing that Costa Rica did do well is it set the stage for them being up in the Papagayo area. Like it already has deemed where they are to be, because those are not being built in the Central and Southern Pacific areas.

They're not being built, you know, in Aranauts. It's all in the Northern Pacific areas where you fly into Liberia on private jets, basically, and then you go to those resorts.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Those resorts being done near Papagayo, you're right, are the, I don't want to call it a stepping stone, they're the spark. Yeah. But, you know, unlike the five-star hospitality 10, 20 years ago, which used to go to one hotel, one destination and stay there, this is no longer the case.

I think that the majority of five-star travelers are now doing a complemented vacation, which means that there's at least two properties. And that being said, Aranaut does have five-star hotels.

[Richard Bexon]

It has five-star, but I'm saying it doesn't have those big names. Like you've had to create those brands.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

When those names come in with the names behind those franchises that are putting the money in it. So again, the name is, you know, Waldorf, Ritz, Marriott, the chains, but there's always these companies coming in that are generally putting in the big money for these projects to be done. And those companies are, and again, I'm not bad-mouthing them, but they're coming in with a very, very clear business plan, a very clear economical study on what's going to be done.

And they cannot have variables. So, you know, for that kind of an investment to be made. So they go with what's basically, yeah, a little cookie cutter-ish and, you know, if Papagayo set the stage for five-star hospitality and it's, you know, it has these beautiful beaches around, it's very close to the airport, it works.

And for you to get these projects rolling with these big names, it has to happen in an area. That's where it had to happen. I mean, that was not a mistake.

It obviously had to happen there for a variety of reasons, but it will, it will branch out from there.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, I've kept you long enough.

So my last question for you, if you inherited $500,000 and you had to invest it into a business or real estate in Costa Rica, what would you invest it in and why?

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Again, I think my answer will be very personal. And everybody's different, like someone that is very financial or wants a very quick return or an immediate return would have a very different response for someone that wants to make a change of lifestyle. I think a lot of people come to Costa Rica, they're like, I'm going to Costa Rica because it's a good place to invest.

But I would say the majority of them, additionally to coming here to invest, want to spend time here, whether permanently, or they're like, I want to be traveling to Costa Rica. I want this to be fun. It's a lifestyle investment.

So I think that I will respond based on that because that's, I resound with that. I understand. I have a lot of friends that have come to Costa Rica to invest here.

They want to make money. Obviously they want their investments to be successful, but they also love the idea of being here. And I love that.

I love that because I think that distinguishes Costa Rica from a lot of other countries that are good to invest in. Costa Rica is fun to invest in. That's for me, that hits a lot harder because wellness is important and it keeps your success going.

Well, this is success. So if I have $500,000, well, obviously, you know, investing in Tamarindo in the early 2000s was good. And then you had the golden age of that area and you had the thousand dollar a meter properties that went to Santa Teresa a few years later, and then it kind of like moved up to Nosara.

And now after pandemic, we're seeing a lot of stuff happening just south of Tamarindo and Avellanes. So, you know, if you're looking to make your $500,000 go far, I would probably avoid those areas, but not by much. Geographically, when I say avoid, I'm saying, you know, get five, 10, 15 kilometers away from it.

And that is far enough to have the prices go down. It's all wave of expansion. So you're in Avellanes, the wave is going to start to hit Playa Negra, it's going to go down to Punquidal and, you know, eventually it'll get down to San Miguel and hit the wave that's coming north from Santa Teresa.

So a shorter answer to your question is find the places that are hot, move out, you know, a half an hour in a car or bike and kind of check it out, see what's going on there and see if it looks like, and if you have more time, go a little further because you're going to get more bang for the buck.

[Richard Bexon]

So does that kind of Yeah, no, definitely. I think that's a great advice. I mean, we've had a lot of people saying that south of Tamarindo, you know, going Avellanes, Negra, Punquidal, as you were mentioning there, north of Nosada, you know, Osteonal, even the Marbella, you know, Coyote, Manzanillo, all those areas.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

I have a conflict of interest because again, I like Costa Rica to develop slowly. So like you just mentioned like three names that are like in my secret, in my secret book, I think they got better advice, more direct advice from you.

[Richard Bexon]

A lot of it comes from water infrastructure and that's what people don't understand. It's like development will follow infrastructure of water here in Costa Rica.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Yeah. But I think the people that have made the most money investing in Costa Rica have gotten there before the water. So I think that to be able to get there, if you have that crystal ball and you know that the water is going to get there in the next two or three years or that the infrastructure, the roads, like if you go somewhere that is fully and beautifully paved, close to the airport, has water, has electricity, has everything, you're going to pay top dollar and you can still make money.

You're going to be very dependent on developing very quickly, which is hard for people that don't have a lot of experience in Costa Rica. And, you know, because if you don't develop quickly, you'll be amortizing your investment in this expensive, small piece of land because $500,000 is not going to buy you a lot of land in the hot area. But if you go a little bit off the beaten path, you just have to go there and kind of put your thumb in the air and say, this feels good.

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. Well, cool. I very much appreciate your time as always, buddy.

It's been great having you on the podcast. And if anyone wants to see the project you're involved in, I'll put all the links in the description down below. Cool, brother.

[Gabriel Saragovia]

Thank you for having me.

[Richard Bexon]

Not at all. Thank you. Cheers.