Introduction
[Mario Mikowski]
Very well. How are you, Richard?
Good. It’s a pleasure to have a fellow podcaster on the podcast now. It’s not often we get a podcaster.
[Mario Mikowski]
Nowhere near as good as you are, but happy to be here. Thank you for the opportunity to share some time with you.
[Richard Bexon]
Not at all, man. It’s my pleasure. I’m sure if you go back and listen to my first one compared to your first one, I’m sure your one is a lot more rough, not as rough as my first one.
[Mario Mikowski]
Well, I have a great partner. Rolando is a very knowledgeable guy and has been around the block a few times, so I just let him lead and bring in some great guests and try to make it fun and informative. For those of you out there that want to join us, PuraVidaTurismo.com.
We’re on Spotify and YouTube, and it’s a great way to learn about current affairs in tourism, a little bit of politics in Costa Rica, what’s going on in the markets in Costa Rica, and hopefully get a little more political as the campaign heats up.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, I’m glad you’re doing it, Manny. For anyone that’s listening and wants to listen, I’ll put the description down in the podcast, the link down there, so you can jump into it. But it’s good because I am yet to find a president that actually wants to talk about tourism.
Yeah, isn’t that weird? It’s really weird. What’s going on?
Political Challenges Facing Costa Rica Tourism
[Mario Mikowski]
They talk about tourism in the campaign, but once they’re in power, it’s like they forget about us.
[Richard Bexon]
Probably because we’re quiet, maybe. I don’t know. We don’t make that much noise and there’s not a sindicato.
[Mario Mikowski]
Yeah, maybe a little too spread out geographically and in the verticals. Even though CanaTur does a good job in unifying us, we don’t make noise. Nobody likes to rock the boat.
We should be making a lot more noise, especially with the way things are now. You’re also afraid of… I’ll give you a little interesting story without mentioning dates, so I don’t get any enemies in line.
I wrote an op-ed article, this is way back, years, decades ago, maybe years ago, in La Nación, when La Nación was still thick with a lot of advertising. People actually read it in paper. There was a parody on driving around Costa Rica, going from San Jose to Arenal, to Monteverde, to Manuel Antonio and back.
The roads were terrible, and potholes, and lack of signage. Of course, there were no ways at the time. It was a huge criticism, and I ended up writing, when I got to Manuel Antonio, I was so fed up, I returned the car and I took the flight home.
Nature era at that time, which was true. Within the next month, La Caja, Tributación, Ministerio de Salud, Ministerio de Trabajo, they had a whole lineup of inspections at our hotel. That’s when I learned my lesson, like you say in Costa Rica, calladito mas bonito, right?
[Richard Bexon]
Don’t poke the bear.
[Mario Mikowski]
Don’t poke the bear.
Tourism Industry Fragmentation and Unity Challenges
[Richard Bexon]
It’s a bit of a shame, but again, I think our strength has become our weakness in tourism, if that makes sense. The strength of its boutiqueness and its diversity and uniqueness also means that when it comes to coming together, there’s no big players, if that makes sense. I suppose in Mexico, where you have a hundred of these large hotels, which are owned by conglomerates and stuff, where they can come in and bully people a little bit more.
Costa Rica is very much more of a boutique destination.
[Mario Mikowski]
The fact that we’re boutique should not preclude your idea. It’s something cultural that I haven’t been able to put a finger on. I wish I could, but the only way you unify tourism in Costa Rica, either a destination or the country as a whole, is during crisis.
I have a friend who I met through the travels and my experience in tourism, and she happens to run the representation of Los Cabos Tourism. I think it’s in the West Coast. I’m not sure if it’s…
It’s definitely in the West Coast. So I was talking to her and see how they got the government to put money up, and she said, no, this is not money, government money. The new administration in Mexico is not really putting a lot of money behind tourism.
This is the hotels in Cabos that organized, decided how much funding they had to put up as a cluster, and hired a specialized agency to promote their destination in the U.S. markets. So this is all private money doing a fantastic job in branding and positioning Los Cabos Tourism. And I just started crying.
The day that happens in Costa Rica, I’ll see my great-grandkids hugging slots. I mean, that’s never going to happen.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, I mean, it’s a shame that it doesn’t. But I mean, again, I do think that the pandemic did bring a lot of the tourism people together, though, man. I mean, it really did.
And a lot of people got kind of together and formed groups and helped out. And yeah, it was because, I mean, everyone owed everyone and no one had no money. So it was either we’re all going to get out alive or we’re all going to die together, if that makes sense, if we die.
[Mario Mikowski]
Sink or swim.
Key Issues: Exchange Rate, Security, and Infrastructure
[Richard Bexon]
Yep. So it was beautiful to see that. I mean, I think the topic of conversation that’s going to be for the podcast, not just for this podcast, but kind of going forward, and we’re probably going to touch on it, is just we’ve got an election coming up next year, where we have no idea who’s going to win, of course, like normal.
But the probably biggest two subjects for anyone at the moment is exchange rate and security.
[Mario Mikowski]
And infrastructure. So it’s three. Don’t forget infrastructure.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. I mean, my question here is, like, how are they going to go about doing this, man? Because it’s, I mean, what’s your opinion on, like, what the next government needs to do?
2025 Election Impact and Voter Power
[Mario Mikowski]
Okay, so let me start with some numbers for you. And for your listeners, you know, people think, like, you know, I shouldn’t vote, it doesn’t matter. Okay.
So our current president, Rodrigo Chavez, came second in the first round, right? In the February round, he came in second, Liberación was first. He got in second with less than 10% of eligible voters voting for him.
Okay, 10%, less than one in 10. Went to the second round, beat the Liberación guy and became president. Your vote matters.
The campaign matters. The promises of each campaign of the 20 political parties that are out there and the 20 candidates, pay attention. You know, this is not everybody’s corrupt.
Everybody is chorizo. No, no, seriously. The future of the tourism industry is tied to what happens in February.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Well, it’s funny that you say that, because in no other country that I know of with 10% of the vote, you become president. But I mean, I suppose, maybe that’s the beauty of Costa Rica.
But maybe it’s not. You know, but I remember, we had Otto Guevara on here before who was explaining it. He was like, I became diputado with 3%.
It was like, what? Sorry. He became a diputado with 3% of a vote in San Jose.
You know?
[Mario Mikowski]
That’s true.
[Richard Bexon]
So it was like, the minority has a huge impact. Like the voice of the minority has a huge impact in Costa Rica.
[Mario Mikowski]
That is true. Yes, representation.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
And I mean, the only thing I don’t like about Costa Rica is that you don’t get to choose directly your diputados, right? The party gives you a list and you vote for the party. So again, a lot of nepotism and cronyism and all the isms.
But I mean, it is what it is. That’s the system. It’s not going to change.
But at least, yeah, you can get elected with a limited number of voters.
Current Tourism Market Analysis
[Richard Bexon]
Well, let’s just chat tourism a little bit. Because, you know, I mean, the numbers being throwing around of like a 2-3% reduction in tourism arrivals this year doesn’t seem right, it looks more like 10% to me, maybe even more from what I understand and what I’m seeing out there. It might be arrival numbers.
But again, I mean, you have to speak to the hotels directly and the tour companies and go, how much is it down? You know, to get a real idea and then you get an idea. I mean, is there any part of Costa Rica that you still think has strong tourism?
Like I mean, still not, it could be worse, put it that way.
Supply vs Demand Crisis in Tourism
[Mario Mikowski]
So let me challenge you a little bit. I’m not going to say the numbers from the government are fake. I actually do believe in the numbers they’re putting out there.
[Richard Bexon]
I do as well.
[Mario Mikowski]
I want to remind you and all your listeners that while demand may be slightly down or flat, supply doubled.
[Richard Bexon]
Correct.
[Mario Mikowski]
I mean, with all the short-term rentals, I mean, we doubled the number of beds in five years. So the pie is the same size and there’s, you know, double the people eating out of it. So yeah, everybody’s going to be suffering.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Well, and I mean, in some destinations, it tripled or quadrupled, you know, the number of…
[Mario Mikowski]
Right. Yeah. If you start, you know, micro-analyzing it, some areas are suffering greatly.
Arenal: A Resilient Tourism Market
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Are there any areas of Costa Rica, many that you think are doing still, like are still doing well in tourism, that still has tourism pretty strong?
[Mario Mikowski]
Again, I mean, depends on what you mean by strong. I think Arenal is still holding its own, but mostly because, you know, demand is historically exceeds supply in the region. And we haven’t seen that many short-term rent.
I mean, there is a lot of short-term rentals in Arenal, but not in the upper level or luxury segment. So they are competing with the cabinas, they are competing with the two-star hotels, but everything, let’s call it three-star and up, is still solid.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
Not the case in other places.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, and I think it’s just because Arenal doesn’t, La Fortuna has no real estate market for that. I mean, the idea of a million dollar villa in Arenal is nuts. I mean, who would do that?
[Mario Mikowski]
You.
[Richard Bexon]
But like, there’s nothing luxury there at all, man.
[Mario Mikowski]
You know, not in the villa area that I’m aware of now.
[Richard Bexon]
No, it’s not. But anyway, yeah, it’s amazing how, you know, every time I go up to Arenal, I was up there yesterday, actually, I flew up there and back, I was like, wow, it’s always busy. There’s always people there, always busy.
So, yeah.
Arenal’s Success Factors
[Mario Mikowski]
I mean, I’m proud to have been part of the growth of Arenal over the last 30 years or so. It’s unique and it works. It’s organic.
There is no clear-cut, you know, anchor leader that you can have in Guanacaste or in San Jose or in Jaco. There’s a lot of locals that are invested in the area. And what I appreciate the most is that people try to have different products.
They’re not just looking at what the neighbor’s doing and trying to copy it and charge less. I mean, yeah, they have five rafting companies and five zip lines, but they’re all different. They all have a twist.
One is more family-oriented, one is more extreme. So, there is a product for every segment. There’s great segmentation and the destination sort of works together as a unit.
The Camara de Turismo has done a great job in the area. And of course, you have the best Associación de Desarrollo, which is funded by the Waterfall Park. So, it’s well-funded, visionary, works together with tourism.
And, you know, a lot of positive factors have come through to make the destination unique and it works.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, I mean, I think probably Arenal’s biggest competitor is Monteverde, but it doesn’t offer everything that Arenal does. And the thing is, I say that like when you’re thinking about hot springs or volcano or adventure, I mean, Arenal owns it and there is no competitor. So, everyone needs Arenal.
The beaches, we’ve got tons of beaches here to choose from, but there’s only one Arenal. So, that’s why I believe in Arenal long-term just because I’m like, yeah, I mean, there’s only one choice.
Monteverde Challenge with New Infrastructure
[Mario Mikowski]
And look out, as they say, be careful what you wish for. With the new bridge that they are finalizing that connects Arenal with Monteverde on the south side of the lake, and it shortens the drive by, I think, about an hour. Be careful Monteverde doesn’t become a one-day trip out of Arenal.
And then, you know, you go up there, you do the hikes, you do this, and then come back. Monteverde is going to have a challenge and they’re going to have to reinvent and become more competitive. Because otherwise, they’re just going to extend one night stays in Arenal and go have the day pass or the day tour in Monteverde.
Hotel Investment Advice
[Richard Bexon]
So, I’ve had two conversations in two days. I had a conversation today about someone that’s looking to buy a beachfront hotel in Samara and another person looking to buy a seven-bedroom hotel in Nosada. So, one in Samara and one in Nosada.
I think a lot of people listening to this podcast are potentially looking to getting into hotels or tourism investments. You have tons of experience in this. What would be your advice to them apart from don’t do it?
[Mario Mikowski]
No, I wouldn’t say don’t do it. What I would say is wait to see what happens in February. 20 candidates, the whole political spectrum from the extreme left to the extreme right, everything in between.
Today, it’s anybody’s game. I would not discount any dark horse in the race or anybody that seems to be out of it. Of course, they all have different views, visions, and importance of tourism in their platforms.
We need a government that is going to put tourism in the front burner starting May 1st or May 8th. I don’t know when they start. However, these four years have been brutal, seeing our costs go up 35-40% in real terms, seeing the infrastructure crumble.
I’m going to have to say that the ISETE has done a great job in promotion. At least, they’ve put the money and you can see the results. They’ve attracted New Orleans.
Some have left already. But the issue is not in the promotional part or the marketing part. It’s the costs and security and, of course, infrastructure.
If you have a fantastic 10-day stay in Costa Rica and you think it’s the best trip you’ve had in your life and the whole family is happy and you get stuck in La 27 for five hours and you miss your flight, that’s it. Your trip was horrible.
[Richard Bexon]
That’s why I fly everywhere and I encourage everyone to fly everywhere if they can. It’s not always the most affordable thing to do. Again, I left at 7 o’clock in the morning and I was back from La Fortuna at 12.30 in the afternoon back in my house. I spent a couple of hours in La Fortuna. It was four people. When I calculated four people, car, amount of time, food, I was like, well, the charter wasn’t really that much different, to be honest with you.
Saved myself half a day to work.
[Mario Mikowski]
Right. But there are some destinations that, like Monteverde, going back to that, that you cannot fly to.
Long-term Investment Opportunities
[Richard Bexon]
I mean, a lot of people are looking to invest in the long term in Costa Rica as well. I always tell them, look, Costa Rica is not like the U.S. where you can see a blank or an empty canvas, like an empty field, and in 10 years the whole thing’s developed with a town center. It doesn’t work like that.
Things move very slowly here. But if you were to make a 10-year punt on location to invest in Costa Rica or ones that you think should be on people’s radars, where would it be and why?
[Mario Mikowski]
And you’re still talking about tourism.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. I mean, tourism. Yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
That’s a good question. Is it a strict investment? Are you going to be running the place?
[Richard Bexon]
It’s a strict tourism investment, kind of real estate investment. So you’re like me.
[Mario Mikowski]
You’re sitting in Washington, D.C., and you have the investment in Costa Rica, and you visit it once a month.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, let’s say that.
[Mario Mikowski]
And you don’t deal with the day-to-day problems.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. It’s nice walking around your place when you’re not doing the day-to-day.
Underserved Tourism Markets
[Mario Mikowski]
Well, I think areas of high demand, which are maybe underserved, and also, I mean, Tortuguero is great. I just think that operating in Tortuguero can be a nightmare. But Tortuguero is lacking in hotel product.
And again, I’m just looking at investing in hotels. I’m not talking about tour operation or theme parks or anything like that. As we mentioned Arenal, I think it still has space to grow.
And of course, I’m partial to Santa Teresa, because that’s where I am. But those are pretty four good spots. Now, if you have patience, if you have a vision, and you want probably the best return for your investment, because all these places have probably over-appreciated land values, right?
So you’re not going to find a bargain in any of these I’m talking about. But if you want to be the lone ranger starting a new destination, I’m a big believer in the area where Silencio Lodge is. Yeah, Silencio Lodge is located at Bajos del Toro.
I think it has so much potential. Beautiful waterfalls, great nature close to the Boas Volcano. And I’m sure land is significantly cheaper than the rest of the country.
So if you want to go for the home run here, that’s my tip.
[Richard Bexon]
You’ve already got Silencio Lodge, who’s taken probably some arrows up there already. So I mean, become the second or third or fourth guy up there, you know, because being the first guy is always tough, as we know. Many of us have tried, you know, and taken arrows.
But as you say, sometimes it can pay off very, very well, but sometimes it doesn’t. But yeah, I mean, I also love the area of Dota, all those mountains in San Marcos. And like, I would love to see that grow, you know, a little bit further up in that area and connect down there to, you know, the Southern Pacific, Central Southern Pacific.
[Mario Mikowski]
Last time I was in Dota, I went trout fishing with my dad about 45 years ago. So cannot comment on that.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, I’m just saying that like that San Marco, Tarazu, that you know, where all the great coffees made, you know, where they’ve got a vineyard now with the Coppea, you know, with up there. Yeah, like, just very different, very, very different that’s being offered in most of Costa Rica.
[Mario Mikowski]
That’s right. The question is, what do you pair that up with? Like after that, you know, like Altagracia, yeah, yeah, like Altagracia has always had that issue, right?
That a beautiful hotel, but you’re like, okay, and then what?
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, I mean, really you have to go down, you know, through Santa Juana Lodge down that way to, I mean, I take that road all the time because I drive up from Manuel Antonio up through those mountains. And I’m like, it could, it’s just getting from the airport across there, it’s just a nightmare. You’ve got to go through San Jose and you’re like, oh man, I mean, just the idea of going through San Jose is just, yeah, I think I’d rather have a tooth removed sometimes.
[Mario Mikowski]
Hey, hey, don’t do San Jose, we have a hotel there.
[Richard Bexon]
I’m not dissing San Jose, I love San Jose, I’m just saying the traffic is absolutely nuts sometimes, like, yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
Yes, it is.
Lake Arenal: A Counterintuitive Investment
[Richard Bexon]
But anyway, well, Manny, my last question for you is I’ve kept you long enough and this has been great. And I think I know your answer to this because you’ve kind of answered it before, but if you had $500,000 to invest in like a business or real estate in Costa Rica, where would you invest it and why?
[Mario Mikowski]
Okay, first of all, like we said, keep it in the bank, you know, short-term bonds until May, see who’s going to be the president. Yep. My, I’d love to hear your comments on this, but my sort of counterintuitive answer would be land around Lake Arenal.
[Richard Bexon]
Interesting you say that, Manny. I would say, yes, but I mean, like, Lost Iguana, Arenal Lodge, depending on what you want to do, I mean, it’s always been very difficult, but I still believe in Arenal, just, I don’t know why nothing ever works around Lake Arenal, you know.
[Mario Mikowski]
Because of the current laws.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah, or like it’s the windy roads or, but yeah, I mean, but you’re, yeah. I mean, it’s beautiful, don’t get, it’s one of my favorite destinations in Costa Rica.
[Mario Mikowski]
I mean, I’m sorry, don’t get me wrong. I’m not building a hotel there. I don’t think the hotel would work, but if you’re looking at real estate development and you get Lake access, I mean, come on, you’ve seen lakes in the US, I’m sure England’s the same.
I mean, every lakefront property is like growing in appreciating significantly and you can still find a lot of land around the lake that’s not highly priced.
[Richard Bexon]
I think, you know, you spent a lot longer here than me. I’ve, you know, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. I’m looking at it from a, okay, you need like some linchpin hotel, you know, to be there to begin with, and then do kind of like some more, because just doing kind of buying real estate and stuff, it’s very difficult because you can’t really kind of move a market that much.
And I mean, but it’s appreciated there, that’s for sure. And there are projects happening here and there. I mean, I used to spend a lot.
[Mario Mikowski]
But the moment the law passes, which it will, and will allow public use and access to the lake where you can have your boat and you can, your jet ski and go and you have your little dock and your property.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
It’s a no brainer.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. Look, I mean, I’ve nearly bought land around Lake Aranau constantly. So yeah.
And the ex-owner, well, I say ex-owner because he passed away of La Mancha on Aranau. Godfrey was a good friend of mine and so is his family. And I mean, it’s beautiful just to set up there and watch that sunset.
But yeah, well, look, we’ve got a lot of people that listen to this podcast that have invested around that area. So I would say we’ve heard it a couple of times, but not that often, but I like the thinking there.
[Mario Mikowski]
I mean, you know, I’m just trying to be different, right? I mean, I don’t know. Anybody can say Santa Teresa and Osada.
Those are already hotspots.
[Richard Bexon]
So yeah.
[Mario Mikowski]
I’m trying to give you, you know, something different to think about.
[Richard Bexon]
Yeah. I mean, I think it was a floating hotel on Aranau once on Lake Aranau years ago.
[Mario Mikowski]
I think it was a floating restaurant, but yeah.
[Richard Bexon]
Wow. I mean, there’s an idea.
[Mario Mikowski]
Look, this is the only lake in the world, I think, that has like no tourism development.
[Richard Bexon]
There’s nothing on it. No one’s ever on it.
[Mario Mikowski]
Yeah.
[Richard Bexon]
Like there’s no one ever on it.
[Mario Mikowski]
Nope. Nope.
Call to Action: Vote in February
[Richard Bexon]
So interesting. Well, Manny, this has been an absolute pleasure. Again, I know you’re very busy on all aspects of your life.
So I appreciate you taking 30 minutes out of your day to chat with us on the podcast and share some of your knowledge. And again, I think anyone that wants to listen to Manny’s podcast, it goes a lot deeper than this with amazing information. I’ll put all the description.
I’ll put the link in the description down below, but thanks very much for joining us on the podcast.
[Mario Mikowski]
Hey, thank you for inviting me. It’s been fun. And yeah, I mean, I’m still bullish in Costa Rica.
But I think the next, what is it, four months are crucial. So anybody listening that holds a please. First Sunday in February, take a few minutes, go vote.
We need to make sure that we are set up with a government that is going to take tourism and put it again in the forefront of the economy and the social development in the country. So please vote.
[Richard Bexon]
Well, I think any candidate that’s for tourism definitely has my vote. That’s for sure.
[Mario Mikowski]
Absolutely.
[Richard Bexon]
Awesome. Have a great day, sir.
[Mario Mikowski]
Thank you.
[Richard Bexon]
Bye.
