087 Private Loans and Mortgages in Costa Rica

[Richard Bexon]

Good morning, Dan, how are you doing?

[Dan Chaput]

 Hey, Richard, how are you?

[Richard Bexon]

Very, very, very good. I appreciate you taking the time and coming on the podcast this morning, especially talking about a subject that I know that a lot of the listeners want to talk about, which is banking and private lending here in Costa Rica. 

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah. There's a lot of questions and confusion about it. 

[Richard Bexon]

Well, I know that you have a lot of experience having worked in the US, in debt and also down here in the Costa Rican Stock Exchange and also for Scotiabank as well.

So I can't think of anybody else that would be better to talk about private lending here and also how it works and also really how you guys do it a little bit differently. But maybe you could start by just giving an understanding of how the general environment is at the moment and why banks here in Costa Rica are so difficult. 

[Dan Chaput]

Sure.

OK, so it's important. A lot of people will come and they expect things in Costa Rica to be a lot like the US, Canada or Europe. You show your income, you show your credit history. 

This is my idea. This is where I live. This is how much money I make.

Can I get, you know, get a loan just like in other places? And it's not quite like that. That's the first thing that people need to understand. The reason why, first of all, when you're coming from another country, when a bank loans you money, they are always thinking of the worst case scenario, right? In the worst case scenario, if you don't pay it, can I collect on this person or can I have some type of legal backup to where we can find a way that they can pay us back eventually? When you're a foreigner, you don't have residency here.

They simply can't do that. So for the banks, it's a flat no. The other part of that is several years ago, 10, 15 years ago, when there was the big real estate boom in the early 2000s, the banks were a lot looser.

They loaned to foreigners. They loaned in tourist locations. They loaned, you know, on all kinds of properties. 

And a lot of those loans went bad for a good reminder of how bad that they went. When you're on the main road going to Hakko, right? As you're entering Hakko, you see that big six, seven story building that was never finished. And there's not much that can be done with it. 

You can't finish it. You can't tear it down. A lot of those things happened.

They had loaned in all sorts of remote locations. And you can see a lot of the foreclosures still today from them doing bad loans. So the banks have now become very cautious because they've got so many bad loans on their books that they need to only have very low risk loans on their books to try to offset those that have been happening over the last 10, 15 years.

So they're very, very cautious. And this has resulted in no loans in tourist areas, no loans outside the Central Valley, no loans to non-residents. They won't loan on land anymore.

A lot of times, they just become very restrictive. And it takes a very long time too, even if you are a resident, even if you have a good income here in Costa Rica. I hear plenty of stories of people where it's taking three, four, five months for them to get any response from the bank. 

And a lot of times they say no, even though they've already paid all these upfront fees to lawyers, to evaluators, to CPAs, to all these different people. And they're like, wait, I just paid all this money and all this. And now you're telling me no? It's a really common occurrence. 

So in a nutshell, that's what's happening. And when people are like, I don't understand, why can't I get a loan from the bank? That's basically why. 

[Richard Bexon]

I think that's a great summary.

I always say Costa Rica is a country full of project graveyards. If you're ever driving, you will see them on the left and you'll see them for the right. And the process to foreclose here is a very lengthy process as well. 

So the banks just stay away from it, as you mentioned there. So let's talk about a solution then. You have private lending or hard money lending or peer-to-peer lending, whatever it's called.

But tell me how that works, and specifically with you guys there, how that works and also what are the costs involved in that? 

[Dan Chaput]

Sure. So private lending came about basically because of this. It's been around a long time, just like it's been around a long time in the US, in Canada.

And the private lending or the hard money lending, generally, so back there, a lot of times they're bridge loans. If the bank isn't quite fast enough, you need to find funding fast. And there's little pools of money around, and people will loan money to you for three months, six months at relatively high interest in order for you to get all the financing together, but for you to secure that real estate deal.

That's a very common industry. It's a little bit of a hybrid down here as to how it works. So because the banks basically don't lend at all, there's a much wider market for the private lending industry. 

Traditionally, what it has been is attorneys will have a lot of people go to attorneys saying that, hey, I've got this piece of property, but I can't sell the property, I need a loan, and the attorney will know somebody else who's willing to loan on it. So the attorney puts together a deal to try to get funding based on a piece of property or collateral. It's good and bad.

It's good because somebody can get financing, but a lot of times it's a really bad deal for the borrower. And this is a big reason why this industry has gotten quite a black eye. A couple of years ago, they were getting 16%, 18%, 20% loans, and people got stuck in debt.

And there's this revolving line of debt that people couldn't dig their way out of. The attorneys loved it because every year, and a half, two years, these loans would get renewed and they'd get their fees again. And then the investors, super happy because they're getting 16%, 18%, 20% on their money. 

They want it to go on forever. But what's happening is the borrower is now stuck in this debt cycle that there's really only two ways out. Either they pay it or they foreclose.

And it's not a very nice party. It's very decentralized. Almost all attorneys do it.

It's very common. And I learned about this. I had loaned some money to a friend several

years ago, probably five or six years ago, and learned a little bit more about the process.

And I realized, wow, there is such a better way to do this. And there's a good market for it too. And that market for us are foreigners in the tourist areas, in the coastal areas, in the nice, beautiful places outside the city.

We don't loan all that much inside the city. We will, but it's not our bread and butter. So say an expat has a piece of property and they want to put it in a pool. 

This is a great use of private lending. So all you do is you put up your piece of property as collateral. Say you've got a $100,000 house and you want to put in a $30,000 swimming pool.

That can be done very quickly. And you add on to the value of your home, putting in the swimming pool. And a lot of times you can pay back that $30,000 relatively quickly with your income and bing, bang, boom, everybody's done. 

And everybody's happy. And so that's a good use case of how we think that hard money loans should mostly be used, which should be lines of credit for improving properties, building a business. About 80% of our customers are Airbnbs, they're boutique hotels, they're tourism companies, they're growing, they're expanding.

And maybe they want to fix a roof or add on some cabinas during low season. They can't get a bank loan. They don't quite have enough money to do it.

So maybe you've got a half a million dollar piece of property and they want to build two more cabinas during the green season and have two more cabinas ready to go for the high season. And so they would contact us. We'd go out, take a look at the property. 

We do the evaluation for free. We'll measure it. We'll check everything in the registry.

We'll make sure everything is being cleared legally, make sure that there's no problems whatsoever. And all we really need to do is just put a first degree loan or first degree lien or mortgage on the property as collateral, just like the bank does. So this is not anything mean or devious.

It's pretty standard procedure. A bank would do the same if they loaned on these things, which they don't. And then we can generally in situations like that, we can get the funds in less than a couple of weeks.

And we'd like- 

Yeah. No, we'd like to do loans like that to where when there is a loan, it produces more income for the customer and they can pay it off quickly. And this is something else where we saw we could really be improved upon was we structure our loans in a way to where they can be paid back quickly and easily by the borrower.

So it's a win-win situation, right? The person who's lending them money still makes a good return, a better return on stocks or bonds or crypto or even a lot of long-term rentals. They make much better returns than that. They're relatively headache-free and the other person can use those funds to make more money, get out of debt and everybody leaves the situation happy. 

Those are the types of deals that we're putting together. 

[Richard Bexon]

This may be a bit inside baseball, but why do you guys do first degree mortgages and not place it into a trust? Because if something bad happened or something negatively happened in order to foreclose on it with the mortgage is a little bit more of a lengthy process than putting it in a trust, right? 

[Dan Chaput]

Right. You can do both.

And this is going to be at the discretion of the lender. We are lenders ourselves and we have all of our bonds loaned out and we have a loan portfolio, but we also have investors. So this is at the discretion of the person who's investing.

Sometimes they will ask to put that into a trust. We don't, I mean, what we're looking for is a situation where that is never even an issue. If there's a trust issue, if there's a location issue, if there's a possibility that somebody can't get it back, we generally don't enter the deal.

A lot of times people will do the trusts because they want an easy way to take the property in the worst case scenario that the borrower can't pay it back. So for us, if it starts becoming high interest, there's a problem because maybe there's a desperation scenario. If there's a trust issue or it needs to be put inside of a trust and there's a probability that somebody can lose their property, we back away from it.

That's not what we're looking for. 

[Richard Bexon]

Okay. So you, I mean, you guys are basically looking for kind of, I mean, I don't know where it would be like AAA style loans, if that makes sense. 

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah. 

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. And I mean, I think that helps for the investors as well, because just to be clear here is you guys also, I mean, cause you mentioned, you know, I mentioned that kind of peer-to-peer lending. I mean, you guys invest your personal money, but also as if, I don't know, say I had $200,000 and I was like, look, I'd love to give you $200,000 to put this out there on loans, on certain properties. 

Could you do this? You guys also do that as well. 

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah, we do. So I'll describe how that works and what the fee structure looks like for the borrower and the lender.

So the structure, the sales process, because it's a sales process, it's very similar to a real estate transaction, right? You've got a buyer and a seller in real estate, and you've got a real estate agent in the middle, exactly the same transaction. So we've got an investor and a borrower, and then we are the brokers in the middle in that situation. So Richard says, I have $200,000, I'd like to put it out on the loan. 

And then we'll ask you, Hey, what type of properties do you like or don't you like? Generally, it breaks down very quickly into two categories. People are like, oh, I like city properties. I like commercials.

I like bodegas. I like office spaces. Or the other people are like, no, I want to go expats and beach areas, right? So knowing Richard, Richard says, oh, you know, a beautiful beach area.

Okay, what are your favorite beach areas? Oh, I really like Nosara. So the next time we're in Nosara, we will travel around to all the different beach locations and we do marketing. We'll approach Airbnb's, we approach boutique hotels, and we offer them basically business lines of credit. 

We call them up, you know, tourism companies, Hey, do you need to buy new buses? Do you need to buy new boats? Whatever it is. And they need to place a real guarantee. So if you say you like Nosara, then the next time a Nosara loan comes up, I'll say, Hey, Richard, this is a boutique hotel.

They're growing really fast. Here are the owners. Here's how it works.

They need $100,000. The property is worth, in our estimation, $800,000. They'd like to pay it off in about 18 to 20 months. 

And you're like, Oh, yeah, okay, sounds good. And so we put together, we take pictures, we get the background on people who are borrowing the money. We get together all the legal paperwork, and we present it to you in a sales piece.

Now, when it gets to you, everything's already been done, we will not present anything to an investor that we would invest in ourselves. So it's considered very, very clean. And there's nothing out of pocket for you.

Now, for the borrower, going back to a $100,000 loan scenario, right? So we do have a fee for our services. It's 5%. Right.

So for us to put the deal together, find the investor, do everything, do all the background work, it's 5% payable at closing. So with no upfront costs, just 5% at closing. This is paid by the borrower. 

And a lot of times this is rolled into the loan. So instead of $100,000 loan, now it will become a $105,000 loan. There's also legal fees involved in the book price.

So by book price, if some of your listeners don't know what that is, Costa Rica establishes what the standard rates are that an attorney should charge for certain things. Private lending is one of them. And it's anywhere between 1.3 to 1.5%. So total charges, the borrower can count on right around 6 and a half percent of total charges to get a loan.

The interest that they'll pay is generally right around 12%. The first year will be interest only. And one of the other things that we do to set ourselves apart is we try to make deals that are easy for them to pay back.

So the first year will be interest only, which is a reasonable amount for this type of loan. It's working capital. It's fast.

You can make more money on top of that. Is it as cheap as a 6% mortgage in the US? No, it's not. But this isn't an amortized mortgage.

This is private money that's working capital done quickly. And it's very flexible. So it does cost a little bit.

And they can pay it back early. That's one of the things that we like to structure. So say 12% interest only. 

After that first year, start to pay it down. So if it's a $100,000 loan, they're going to have a $1,000 payment at 12%. If you have $2,000 or $3,000 extra, throw it towards the principal and start paying that principal down over a certain amount of time. 

It's not quite as good as an amortized loan, but it's not too far off either. And we want to get those people out of debt. We want them to be working capital.

We want them to tell their friends. And we want this to be a win-win situation for everybody involved. We want the investor to make a great return on their capital safely.

And it is super safe for investors. And we want this person to be able to have access to a reasonably priced working capital where they can grow their business and maybe even ask for this investor to provide some capital in the future for further growth. We're looking for these long-term, lifelong relationships and referrals as well. 

[Richard Bexon]

So, I mean, just to give the listeners an idea, I mean, what are the ranges in interest rates and length of loans? And also how large would they be? Just because, I mean, I'm sure that people have just been chomping at the bit here going like, get to the meat, like how long, how much, and like the interest rate.

[Dan Chaput]

 How long, how much? You got it. These are shorter term loans, one to five years.

We don't really want to go beyond five. Don't want a situation where people are being eaten up by interest. Right around 12% is kind of a general starting point.

If there's something wrong with it, and I use that term very loosely, right? If there's something slightly higher risk about the loan, maybe it's a little bit outside of town. So for example, we have one in Samara. It's not in Samara Central. 

It's like five minutes away from Samara. It's a little bit higher risk because it's not the best location. That one would be 14%, right? Now people, of course, want to pay as little interest as possible.

Like, gosh, you know what, can I get a 10% loan? We have done 10% loans before. And the way you get that is by having a very good loan to value ratio. Now the loan to value ratio is how much money do we lend on it and how much is it really worth? So my 10% loans are generally five to 10% loan to value.

So they're borrowing, say, $100,000 and putting up a piece of collateral that's worth a million to $2 million. Because there's basically zero risk for the investor, we can be a lot more flexible on the interest rate in those cases. 

[Richard Bexon]

And now let's talk about, I mean, I think it's very clear for anybody wanting to borrow. 

I mean, they basically just reach out to you and kind of can contact you and get an idea of potentially what you guys could do. I mean, if they contacted you to begin with, I mean, I know that you'd have to do a very thorough due diligence, but you could probably give them a rough idea to begin with of like, okay, if they're like, I've got this property here, this is how much it can generate. I'm looking at a loan to value of, I don't know, 20%. 

I want to learn over, I don't know, four to five years. You could be like, look, we're going to need to go a little deeper, but basically it's going to be this and that, if you know what I mean. 

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah, no, we get those inquiries all the time. We're happy to answer them, happy to talk to people. And we'll tell them pretty much right away. 

Hey, we don't want to waste anybody's time, right? This is another thing that we want to be so much better than banks when we do this. The banks make you wait, we'll tell you probably five, 10 minutes. You know, that location is not all that great.

We don't have lenders right now who are willing to loan on that location or this type of structure. We don't do it or we don't loan on land. We'll tell you right away.

So yeah. 

[Richard Bexon]

Well, now let's jump to the other side. If you've got investors, because a lot of people are sitting on cash at the moment, you know, and as they say, you know, to an extent cash is trash.

I don't agree with that because cash can do a lot for you. But again, having cash sitting there in the bank at the moment, it's not doing much for you. You know, inflation is probably eating away at it.

This could be a great place for someone that's to invest, you know, basically money and get anywhere, as you mentioned there from 10 to 14% return. Right. I mean, if I'm an investor, what things should I understand? How do I contact you guys? Like, you know, how would that work? 

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah.

So I'll start out. The investability of this is the biggest reason why I got into it. I'm looking for, I know this, the word passive income is thrown around a lot these days and a lot of passive income like rentals, for example, is not as passive. 

This for me, as far as fixed income, fixed passive income is one of the best I've ever found. And I've worked for major institutions, right? So you've got a collateral that's paying you 12 to, you know, let's just use a 12% example, 12% on average, so you have a million dollar portfolio, you're getting $12,000 a month off this. And all you really do is make sure that people paid on time. 

That's about it. Hey, you know, if they're a couple days late, hey, Juan, you missed your payment. Is everything okay? And oh, yeah, yeah, I'll get it tomorrow.

That's generally about all you have to do. And then they just deposit into your bank account, you provide them a receipt, and you're done. So it's really a very easy, high yield, guaranteed investment.

From an investment point of view, it's fantastic. What was I'm sorry for, what was the other part of your question? 

[Richard Bexon]

No, I mean, just as an investor. I mean, I suppose I just reached out to you guys, right?

[Dan Chaput]

Yeah, you can. Costaprivateloans.com We have several investors now, but we were always looking at new people. The more investors there are, the more we can match them up with, with borrowers and the borrower's needs. We're in a time right now in Costa Rica, where we're growing really fast. 

And these, you know, in the beach areas in the tourism related areas, right? There's a lot of people coming, they have some cash, maybe they want to be a little bit bigger, maybe they want to grow. And so there's a lot of need and a lot of demand. So if we can match up an investor to a borrower, you know, it's for us, it's a great thing.

And we're helping people grow their businesses and accomplish their dreams. So yeah, please contact us. 

[Richard Bexon]

I mean, it sounds very similar to a thing in the UK I did a while back, which was again, the peer to peer lending, where, you know, I put, I don't know, 20,000 pounds in there, and then I'd lend it out to, you know, someone there, I think they did more kind of spread it out over various, you know, companies, but this sounds kind of more of a one to one. 

And I've done that here in Costa Rica as well. I mean, again, I think it's very, it's very favorable. I think it's a great thing to do.

And again, ultimately, you're helping someone. So yeah.

[Dan Chaput]

That's the idea. We want to help people, it's got to be a win win situation, a lot of people will, it's important to understand there's a lot of people who do it with bad intentions, they will loan wanting to take that find any excuse possible to take that property away from the borrower, they'll put clauses in there, they'll make it as short term as possible to make it difficult to pay back, they'll have only balloon payments, whatever it is, you have to be really careful, the intentions of that person, we will screen out all those people, we sit down with all of our investors, we say this is the only way we loan, this is the way we write our loans, we're not trying to get people's properties, we're not trying to foreclose.

But the way we do it is, there's, let's just say there's a lot of money to be made in taking people's properties. But we don't sleep well at night doing that. And we do it that way. 

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, no, I definitely understand. I think I've mentioned to you, I financed a deal for a client a while back, just because they asked if the owner would do it. And I said, Well, what rates are you looking at? And you know, I think it was like, you know, I can't remember the exact thing like five years 10%.

And I was like, Well, I'll do it for you if you want to, you know, rather than having to go through the negotiation of like, I know you, I know the property, like, I know everything here, it's more than happy to have money was just sitting there in the account. And, you know, it's an absolute pleasure to be able to help them get the property as well. But I could not think of anything worse than doing it like a predatory style loan to take someone's property, I could not sleep at night. 

And, you know, I mean, it's just not as we'd say, here, pura vida.

[Dan Chaput]

So yeah, a lot of them are very predatory. So so for those borrowers out there that are listening, be very careful with, you know, your attorney will know somebody probably, if you talk to your attorney, just be very careful about the terms and, you know, ask for a five year term, if they're trying to make the term as short as possible. 

Odds are they're trying to get a lot of fees or, or they're looking for some type of foreclosure. Negotiate if this is a private loan, right? It's not set in stone by the bank, negotiate these terms, tell them what your situation is, hey, can I pay back, you know, in chunks of 20,000 every three months, right? If they're not willing to negotiate, probably want to walk away, because you want to have a reasonable borrower, because things do happen, right? During COVID, one of the ways that we grew our business so much is because during COVID, we have a decent amount of money loaned out in the beach areas, right. And, of course, all the planes stopped flying.

And, you know, our Airbnb and our apartment building and, and tourism companies were like, Hey, Dan, we, we can't pay, or maybe we can pay half a lot of we, if we were mean, we could have made millions on that. And by millions, I mean, 45 million dollars in a matter of months. We did not, we basically said, Hey, we're in this together, we want you to be successful, we'll give you 90 days, you know, no problem, you don't need to pay anything. 

And then in those 90 days, let's reevaluate. Let's read, we can restructure to see, you know, how you can pay it back based on your income and, you know, see what happens from there. And when we did that, everybody was really surprised.

And like, Oh, wow, that's really surprising. You know, they were panicking. And, and no worries, we're not going to foreclose, we're in this together.

And they just started referring to us like crazy based on that. So most of our loans, the last year and a half have all been referrals, because we are fair, and we want to do it right, we want to do it long term, when, you know, when we're 70 or 80, we want to keep doing this, it sounds, it sounds strange that loans are fun, but loans are actually fun, because we structured it in such a way to where we can go around to all the, the tourism places, all the beach towns, visit all these people get to be a part of these communities, and we're helping them grow while going to the nicest places in Costa Rica. And we want to do that long term. 

So that's our goal. 

[Richard Bexon]

Good for you. It’s nice to see someone helping people achieve what it is they want to achieve, just because again, it’s, you know I think  it only allows Costa Rica to grow, you know, on a on a, you know, a short and long term basis. Because people do get concerned here that like, look, okay, if everyone's a cash buyer here, the number of buyers is very limited, just because, you know, financing is not available. But by allowing financing to be available, now, the number of buyers increases, of course, which I think is only good for Costa Rica, you know, in the short term and also the long term. 

[Dan Chaput]

We do do some of them, right. So it can happen. A lot of times what happens is maybe somebody wants a $500,000 house, but they only have 400,000. 

And they just need a little bit extra, right, they need that extra 100,000. We can do that as well. It's not as common, we do do it.

Yeah, but there's just something to keep in mind is that there's going to be a lot of when you're buying that house, you're going to get some stickers out from the fees, right? So you're buying this house, you're going to pay your realtor, probably right around 6%. You're gonna pay your escrow, you'll pay your attorneys, pay your closing fees. And on top of that, you're paying all of the lending fees, you know, our fees are still 5% on top of that. 

And then there's, you know, the legal fee for the loan as well. So then they're looking at anywhere between 12 to 15% just in fees to buy a home. So it can be done, but it's not a very efficient way to do it. 

Cash is best for buying a home, either short term or long term, this isn't the best solution. But people do do it sometimes if they can pay it off quickly. Maybe they found a great deal, maybe they found their dream home. 

Maybe they, you know, they're not as fee sensitive. But I just want to, you know, make it really clear. 

Oh there is financing to buy the house that I want, slow down, it’s you know, be very careful about it because of all of those fees involved. You know, we want your home ownership and property experience to be really good and we don’t want shock or bad reputation because something got over their head. 

[Richard Bexon]

But, to understand that fee structure in the legal, I mean, the legal fees and transfer fees and taxes, of course, is on the value of the property, but your guy's 5% and whatever is on the loan value, correct?

[Dan Chaput]

 Correct, just on the loan value. So if it's a $500,000 house, it's a $100,000 loan. It's 5% so it's a $5,000 fee. 

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, because it just sounded like that, that like you'd end up paying 15% on the whole 500,000.

So you'd end up spending like, you know, $75,000 in fees, whereas probably it's going to be a lot less than that. 

[Dan Chaput]

Right. But say if somebody wanted to finance a whole 50% of their, of their home, of course, yeah, then you're looking at, you know, then you're, you're looking at pretty significant fees.

[Richard Bexon]

Well, Dan, this has been great. My last question for you, which I love to ask people, if you inherited $500,000 and had to invest it in business and real estate in Costa Rica, what would you invest it in? I think I know the answer to this, but what would you invest it in?

[Dan Chaput]

 Of course, you know the answer. So I really like passive income. 

I'm, there's different personalities when it comes to investment, right? Some people really like to touch things. Some people, you know, so for those people really like to touch and see things, real estate is a great option. For people who like things that grow and can grow exponentially over time, you know, stocks are a great instrument for that. 

For me, I like easy passive income. For me, it's all about that. So 500,000, I would loan it out and I get $5,000 a month in passive income.

That's, that's what I would do with it. 

[Richard Bexon]

Yeah. I knew that that would be the answer, but I thought I'd ask it anyway.

But, yeah, this has been great. I think this is a, you know, an option for people that have businesses already. I think, as you mentioned, there is, you know, for anyone that's looking to potentially buy a home here as well, there is this option available as well. 

But I think, again, I think it just goes back to just really understanding there is, you know, what you're trying to do and having a, just a discussion with you guys. And then I'm sure that you guys can guide them, you know, either way. So.

[Dan Chaput]

Yes, we can. We're happy to, if anybody has questions, you know, there's a lot of details with this, you know, there's taxes involved, there's fees, there's locations, there's all kinds of different things. And we're happy to help people through that process.

We do pretty low volume. I mean, we're not trying to make this as big as possible. Again, our goal is to live in nice places and be a part of the community and travel around and help people out.

So if somebody just wants to call, looking for information, we're more than happy to help them. And we think that's going to bring us more referrals along.

[Richard Bexon]

I agree.

Well, Dan, this has been great. Anybody that wants to reach out to Dan and cost their private loans as well, I'll put all the contact details in the description below. 

But Dan, I appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast with us.

[Dan Chaput]

 Thanks, Richard. No worries.

[Richard Bexon]

Have a good day. 

[Dan Chaput]

You too, sir. Thanks.

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